and now for something completely different

[kaigou]

I know I've got med-folks on my flist, somewhere out there, and I've got a bizarre medical hypothetical for ya. Any other folks with reasonable (or failing that, amusing) ideas also welcome.

Let's say I like to wear a bracelet per wrist. Each one is relatively close-fitting (about as close as the average watch band, let's say), and closes by such an ingenious mechanism that it'd take Houdini (or me being awake enough to instruct) to get out of the thing -- which means it's not coming off easily, and it won't come off with bolt-cutters since the band is too tight to get the cutter between skin and metal. AND, here's the kicker, for some reason (just GO WITH ME ON THIS ONE, okay?) it's decorated not with your usual gemstones or cheap charms but with rare-earth magnets. Y'know, the ones that will attach themselves to the nearest metallic object and not come off for love or money.

AND, finally, let's assume I'm passed out, say, post car-accident but without indications that major surgery is potential: heart is okay, no sign of bleeding, no indication of internal bleeding, but possible fractures, perhaps, and looking like maybe some exhaustion and/or alcohol and/or strong knock to the head. Basically, whatever combination gets me "passed-out and unable to answer questions BUT not likely to be rushed into O.R. right away and not on death's door", okay?

Is there some kind of EMT secret weapon that would/could remove even an 1"-wide metal bracelet fitted so closely?

If the jewelry is not easily removable, would it just be left alone?

(Although I would guess if, say, arm is broken! then bracelet would definitely have to come off before bone could be set/wrapped, right?)

Would the inclusion of the magnets mess with hospital/ambulance stuff? Would they mess with it REALLY badly or just kind of or not really much at all -- okay, except for maybe having arm suddenly attach itself securely to the gurney's handles, whoops.

Yeah, I know, crazy-crazy, don't ask, but really there's a reason for my madness. Really!

Comments

[tanuki02.livejournal.com]

Better hope the med tech isn't wearing a steel belt buckle.

[chibidrunksanzo.livejournal.com]

And now I have visions of kaigou molesting an EMT while unconscious. XD

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

NOT HELPING!!!

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Okay, brain just went to a bad place.

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

I would love to help, but...I got nothin'.

*snicker*

HOWEVER...a bracelet with rare-earth magnets would kind of create havoc around computers, ATMs, sometimes even anti-shoplifting devices, dishwashers...

OTOH, if these are play items, you would definitely have to worry about tender bits being caught between them and metal objects. Would put a damper on a lot of, erm, activities.

They would interfere with some ambulance equipment, I'd think, as well as cell phones and metal belt buckles...all in all, they don't pose insurmountable fictional problems but I'd have to know more before I could safely extrapolate.

You'll notice I'm restraining myself from asking. Aren't I a good girl?

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

FANCY HANDCUFFS, okay?

(look, seems like every time I turn around I'm coming up with ingenious solutions to non-existent problems from an engineering perspective, so why can't I revel a little in folklore critters reputed to do the same?)

ATMs, hmmm. Guess I'd probably get in major trouble if I tried to test that one, though. Ooh, a touch-screen--whoops!...sorry. Eheheh.

Yeah, that would probably be bad. (Meanwhile, in the background, CP is muttering about "if there were a way to make them electromagnetic," and he says I'm the one who always makes things way too complex?)

[stinky-horowitz.livejournal.com]

http://www.jewelerssupplies.com/cutters-shears.html

I've seen the electric ring cutter on this page used by a fireman on TV. You could probably get it to cut through a bracelet by sliding the arm forward as it cuts, but there's a cutoff when it gets through the metal, so I imagine the cutting would have to go in fits and starts. If that's not what you're looking for (or doesn't sound feasible) there's that big bracelet cutter, too. Though I doubt that would be standard. If you look up electric ring cutter, there's a lot more info.

The bracelet would come off if there was swelling in the area (like you'd get with a broken arm), and the bracelet restricted blood flow. I don't think the magnets would mess with the ambulance equipment at all, and probably not in the ER either (but I'm not fully sure). Unless the patient needed a CT scan or MRI--especially MRI--then it would need to come off.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

So as long as the person isn't actually showing signs of broken bones or of needing to be cut open -- oh, like, I dunno, the kind of "I think he ate peanuts!" kind of emergency room visit -- then most jewelry would be left alone? I figured the magnets would be a humorous element, although I admit I was thinking "gurney arm" and not "EMT wearing a massive belt buckle showing a picture of an eighteen-wheeler"...

CP was telling me about the cutters used for casts, but that's a little different than cutting through something that's 1- or 2-gauge... and I notice the bracelet cutters (I think it was) would do up to 18-gauge, but that's remarkably tiny even compared to, say, the electrical wire I've got, which is 14-gauge, I think. Hrm. Still. I guess some kind of saw-blade like the ring cutter would be required.

Or alternately (it just now occured to me) just try to snap off the magnetic-charms and that's half the battle, if the magnets are causing issues.

thanks! must...ponder...now... heheheh.

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

Cast cutters don't actually cut, they vibrate -- not even cutting skin without trying hard. This is enough to break up the plaster, and even fiberglass (although that can get pretty hot and needs breaks so it goes slower) but not likely to do anything to solid metal.

Ring cutters would be more likely to eventually do the job. But much like rings, if there's no reason to remove them (swelling, needing to access the skin underneath) they'd generally be left in place. Unless the magnets were strong enough to begin playing havoc with electro-magnetic fields in machines, like disc drives, magnetic memory, MRIs.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Unless the magnets were strong enough to begin playing havoc with electro-magnetic fields in machines, like disc drives, magnetic memory, MRIs.

I do recall [censored] years ago working in a radio station on campus, and having to (okay, this should tell you how many years ago) clear the carts. Ahem. The single-tapes, roughly the size of an eight-track cassette, which held recorded advertisements and other short-length bits... it took several swipes over a large electromagnetic box, about the size of a really thick paperback book. That's always stayed in my head ever since, when it comes to "things recorded" plus "things magnetic". Heh.

Though, in contrast, I would think it'd take a substantially smaller (if still very powerful) magnet to clear an item like, say, the SIM card for a phone, such things are still relatively well protected. So for the most part I didn't think such tiny, if strong, little magnets would be enough to wipe everything around -- it was more like, would this interfere with items brought close to the person? I dunno, any kind of device placed on/near the person while diagnosing...

Mostly it's academic because (as I keep telling CP when he tries to poke holes in my ideas) the beauty of writing urban/fantasy is that you can always put your fingers in your ears and chant, lalalala magic clause! That part, I can fudge, but in terms of actual medical practice, I still want some kind of basis in reality -- although to be on the safe side, all hospital scenes I ever write will have "no cellphones allowed" although I've been in hospitals in the past few years that do not have this policy. Hmph.

And no points extra to you if you get that one, because you know exactly where it comes from. (Heh.)

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

So just set it a few years in the future and have them be "modified" magcuffs or something. Or just skew the world a little bit. That one little word--modified--solves ALL SORTS of problems.

If they were handcuffs, there's got to be a key. (No good unless you can take 'em off when you want to.) If they're official handcuffs, EMTs would have a spare key or something like it just-in-case, for responding to car crashes with just this sort of eventuality.

I should think EMTs would see a lot of handcuffs, both official and not so official.

The only problem with making them electromagnetic would be a power source the handcuffed person couldn't tamper with. How about this: a simple application of electric current makes them unlock by reversing some sort of polarity or something? I know it's pretty shoddy but hey, in fiction we have got to have SOME fun. And an electric jolt offers up all sorts of possibilities--from the shock paddles to just about anything else. Wow. It's endless.

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

And now I realize I was giving fiction advice and you were probably looking for help with an actual invention.

Curse my brain. I see a problem and immediately think "PLOT DEVICE! Huzzah! We are saved!"

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Oh no no no, if it were an actual invention I would have posted PICTURES so you could laugh even more thoroughly at how much of a geek I really am. No, purely fiction -- besides, the last thing I need are more toys.

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't laugh. I'd probably suggest inclusion into this book (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/101-Unuseless-Japanese-Inventions/Kenji-Kawakami/e/9780393313697), though.

*grin*

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

I think the vast majority of stuff I've done in the kitchen could probably be included in there, if they have a section on "unuseless cabinetry tricks".

(Often heard around here: no, honey, this bizarre side pocket drawer is not useless, it's the exact shape of the pepper grinder! look! see! awesome, right? right? honey? stop banging your head on the countertop, you'll hurt yourself. stop, don't you want to see the nifty rotating cubby-hole I made for the canopener?)

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

*is agog at your cabinetry voodoo*

Do you have a clone I can marry? Because a side pocket for my pepper grinder? THAT'S sexah.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, no, and hush, you, or else you might find someone's packed me into a box and shipped me your way. For some reason, someone around here seems to think that kind of thing is overkill. I have no idea why, really!

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

It's not OVERKILL. It's APPRECIATED by people who cook. *grin*

And if you got shipped up here, well, at least I'd feed you. Heh.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

And an electric jolt offers up all sorts of possibilities--from the shock paddles to just about anything else. Wow. It's endless.

Have I mentioned recently that I love your brain?

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

I often think it's my best feature. Right before I do something stupid and lose all respect for my mental capacity. *grin*

Did that help?

[tatterpunk.livejournal.com]

... someday I'm going to crack open your skull just to have a peek.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Why is it that when I ask a perfectly normal question, I always get at least one person saying that in response? Do you people trade off on who gets to say it, this time? Honestly, doesn't everyone contemplate stuff like this? No? It is just me? Oh. Hunh. Uhm.

*wanders off*

[therinth.livejournal.com]

Ouch. Email me when you merely want to take someone's hand off -- by the time i see them, the EMT's have done all that, already :D

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Ehehehe, well, I do know all about taking your fingertip off -- I was married to a cook for a number of years. Nothing like having someone burst into your business (with tray of dirty glasses in hand, to boot) screaming, "OMG HE CUT HIS FINGER OFF AND THERE'S BLOOD EVERYWHERE OMG" and I'm thinking, uh, bookstore, what do you expect ME to do about it?

Convince him to stop cleaning up and go to the hospital, that's what. Oh. Well, how about no, does no sound good? Because cooks don't listen to non-cooks.

(Three hours later I finally got him into the car & off to the hospital, with the fingertip in a bloody plastic bag along with lots of ice and all the carrots he'd been chopping. At least, we hoped it was in there, since no one wanted to actually check. Meanwhile, he's got his hand wrapped in bloody towel and then in plastic bag, because they'd been down to three thanks to sudden illness and he couldn't just, y'know, LEAVE, even if he was kinda bleeding. KINDA!?)

If you're wondering, life is a lot easier now that I don't have to live with grease and blood. Ergh.

[hinotori.livejournal.com]

As long as you don't need to get an MRI ... *coughs*

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah.

[tiercel]

Um... wouldn't those be incredibly impractical to wear on a day-to-day basis? I mean, one false move and you're permanently attached to the taxi. Or the lamppost. Or the subway train.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Absolutely -- but I wasn't thinking everyday, so much as some kind of really bizarre handcuffs -- the sort of thing created by someone with way too much time on their hands. No, really. IT'S FOR A STORY OKAY SHEESH.

*snerk*

[tiercel]

So what's wrong with fur handcuffs? Why you gotta be all /fancy/? She-it.

Oh my God. I love Google.

http://www.kaboodle.com/reviews/handcuffs--fur-handcuffs--pink

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

THAT IS JUST SO MANY KINDS OF WRONG I DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN.

On the other hand, I suppose it's for the cop who has everything -- matches with this (http://www.jimsgunsupply.com/DuraCoat/dc/duracoat_Glock_hotpink_110508.jpg).

[tiercel]

Ha! I see your Glock and raise you this.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Okay, I concede. YOU WIN THE INTARWEEBS. Totally.

Excuse me, I need to find the bleach, now.

[kraehe.livejournal.com]

I have some rare-earth magnets on my fridge. It is actually possible to remove them, so I can only guess that they come at varying levels of strength...

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

I think they do -- I recall a magnet we had on the fridge, gift from a supplier/artist. He had one he'd put on the hood of his truck, and drove from PA to VA with it and it didn't budge the entire time. Big hunk of concrete (about 2" high) sealed to the magnet, too, so it was hardly streamlined kind of hood ornament.

That, and I've dealt with the tiny rare-earth magnets that are so incredibly strong that you have to slide them to the edge of the surface to pry them off. Seems like something a person could get undone with a bit of force, but it'd be pretty hard if you had no leverage (ie, had wrists forced together by the two magnets sticking).

[mintaka00.livejournal.com]

If you're looking to be really exact on the details I would suggest popping into a fire station and asking to interview the EMTs. I would imagine they'd be happy to help.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Heh, well, it wouldn't be the first time I've asked something bizarre like that. Person above you -- kraehe was the one standing there in shock when I stopped at a local Catholic church to ask the minister whether a cardinal was appointed or elected, and whether any cardinal-positions were secular (meaning you didn't have to be ordained to hold the position). He was baffled, but polite, while Kraehe was just in shock that I'd stroll in, ask such off-the-wall things and stroll back out again. Well, not like Wiki was helping much, so I go to a source, right?

Or the time I called a sex shop to ask about cock rings and whether they had to be sized. Man, now, that was an amusing information-gathering exercise. And I have talked to swat teams about how they'd handle teenagers (under-18) post drug-raid, and talked to cops about whether they're supposed to carry guns pointing up or down when they're making their way through a building with potential attackers around, and there was that conversation I had with the mechanic about cutting brake lines...

People talk about how these days the govt is watching any email or phone correspondence that implies being up to no good. In which case, I betcha the FBI's file on me has got to be at least three inches thick, but at least hopefully it's good reading.

[luna-the-cat.livejournal.com]

Ok, adding to the medical perspective here? There is equipment in most ambulances that you would NOT want a strong magnet stuck to...

...And once the person is in the emergency room, not only do they run the risk of interfering with things like, oh, the emergency external pacemakers they use, just about every doc I know of now has some form of PDA on which they store drug references if nothing else. An ER doc who leaned too close to one of these magnet bracelets during an exam and had his PDA files corrupted? If the EMT folks had had a chance and hadn't removed those magnetic bracelets, said doc would rip them a new one. Several new ones. In patterns.