this is mongrelheart's fault.

[kaigou]

Went back to gym yesterday, complained to manager, and was set up with second trainer for meeting this morning to come up with workout plan. At one point he suggested kettlebells. Which, to be honest, I had no idea what they were. All I knew was that they're something used by crazy people. Like, say, my sole exposure (the aforementioned mongrelheart) being someone who's clearly crazy (in a good way) about athleticism, and when someone crazy like that complains about kettlebells and, uhm, something to do with kettlebells, I make a note that kettlebells = mad-crazy. Turns out they're just round weights with a single handle, instead of the old dumbbell types with the weight on either end of a handle. Oh. Okay. Not so much with the mad-crazy. (Clearly the mad-crazy is just M all on her own.)

Talking to the manager, I finally said (not quite losing my temper but close) that I felt like I'd been patronized (although the trainer's a nice guy so I'm sure he didn't intend to insult me, so much as just carry on with his assumptions about What Women Really Want, or something). When I'd asked about why the plan was for working out twice a week, what else was I supposed to do? The trainer had said, take classes. I told the manager (and told him I'd told the trainer) that if I wanted to do classes, I would've bloody well just done classes and skipped the cost of seeing a trainer. When I explained I don't even want to work with a trainer regularly -- just someone to check in on -- the manager wanted to know why it mattered. I said, because it's like the off-season: the coach gives you goals, and you go away and work towards them, and come back after so long, having met those goals and gone further.

(To the trainer today, I explained it's also because my brain says, "you should be stronger than this!" and my body says, "woah, it's been awhile." Having a trainer follow me around at this point is more humiliation and frustration than positive reinforcement. I need to get to a point where my heart and core are stronger, then I won't feel like a useless lump if/when I work with a trainer.)

Today's new phrase: skinny-fat. I was explaining about my joints, that I can't do the elliptical or the upright bike, or the leg press or squats/lunges, because it makes my knees grind. I can hear the last shreds of cartilege grinding, and while it doesn't hurt per se, it's a clear warning that if I keep going, the coming hurt will put me on my ass, possibly long-term. But! I can walk up stairs without a problem, I can walk all day, and there's no pain. My joints don't ache or swell or any of that stuff. It's just that I don't have much cartilege. So if I can go up the stairs, I guess that means I could try the stairmaster. The trainer scoffed and said, "don't bother with that. All it'll do is make you skinny-fat." (As in, weighing less because what you've got is lightweight fat, not powerful muscle.)

We never did figure out what's the opposite of 'skinny-fat'. Curvy-strong?

ETA: in unrelated news, got a copy of Bite of China, a Chinese show on regional cuisine. (First two episodes subbed in english; more coming, I hear.) OMG. Do not watch if you are even remotely hungry. Sooooooo good. Soooooo droolworthy.

Reason #4 for losing weight: so I can travel overseas and gain it all back by eating my way through various countries & cuisines. Except India. I love Indian cuisine, but I just don't think even with all my dedication that I'd ever be able to handle the spice-heat. When Indian friends say they made their family's dish "mild" just for me, and it still brings me to tears... it's probably a sign. Visiting India would probably be a lot of smelling but avoiding the tasting. Although come to think of it, Thailand would probably be in the same category. Which is okay; first on my list is Taiwan, then Japan, and I'd probably need a decade just for China alone...

Comments

[mongrelheart]

Eegads, it's my fault? Heehee OK. I'll take responsibility for being crazy about kettlebells, anyway ;) I'm glad you were able to have a meeting with trainer #2. Hopefully he will be a better match for you & your goals. Best of luck! Also, I completely agree with you about the off-season & having somebody to check in with. A little bit of accountability goes a long way (for me at least!)

(btw the cult I belong to, obligates me to mention that if you are seeking a workout that will push & challenge you, you may want to check out the local Crossfit gym at some point, if there's one in the area.)

Talking to the manager, I finally said (not quite losing my temper but close) that I felt like I'd been patronized (although the trainer's a nice guy so I'm sure he didn't intend to insult me, so much as just carry on with his assumptions about What Women Really Want, or something).
I think there's definitely a lot of that going around, especially in the typical gym where the trainers tend to be male (and young-ish) and if they get a female client who's "older" (by which I mean past college age heh). In all fairness, there are a lot of clients of both gender persuasions who really don't want to be pushed too hard & are more interested in having somebody pay attention to them... some trainers may become acclimated to that, unfortunately.

We never did figure out what's the opposite of 'skinny-fat'. Curvy-strong?
Curvy-strong! I like it :):)

[kaigou]

I just recall you fussing about kettlebells, and knowing you do crazy stuff... well, the connection stuck. Heh. Now I know it's just you. Ffffttt!

The point where I started to get less annoyed and more, just, flabbergasted (no better word) was this:

Manager: Most of the trainers tend to shy away from putting clients through too-strenuous workout. If they do it to someone not expecting it, it scares them and they never come back. But then, if other people see you falling off the machine at the end of a rep, that tends to scare them, too.

Me: If other people get scared because I'm working myself at my limit, they've got bigger problems no weight machine is gonna fix.

(Sheesh.)

Checked out the crossfit site, and there's one about twenty minutes north of me, but I'm locked into this gym (only five minutes from my house, handy) for now. I think I need to be solo for a bit, because if I get the least sense I'm on the same track as someone else, I'll start competing and push myself too hard. When I'm in better shape, that'll be fine, but right now, it's a danger.

Side-note: I scrolled through the various little videos and clicked on one for "Todd vs the rower", just curious (wasn't sure whether it meant 'rowing' as in erg, or rowing as in the weight machine). It's an erg, and the guy did a 300m piece but couldn't finish before he came off his seat. Holy crap, that was painful. Talk about bad technique, times ten. (Coming off your seat is prime instance of applying leg-power totally wrong.) I was about to close it and whine, but the second part of the video was someone instructing the guy on how to properly use the erg. Whew.

Though what twigged for me was the layback (end of stroke). The student was instructed to do just the slightest layback, and the trainer noted that on the water, rowers lean back considerably farther. (We do! I still do!) Which puts a lot of strain on your back, but rowers train for that. I'd never thought about that before, but maybe that's why my back remains decently strong to this day. (It's really really rare that I can ever do anything bad enough to make my lower back feel even a twinge, including lifting in the totally wrong way.) But still. The first half of that video was poster-child for what I usually see at the gym, so kudos to Crossfit if it actually has knowledgeable trainers willing/able to show how to do it right. Hell, none of the trainers at my gym have even recognized the sport known as 'crew', let alone shown any knowledge of the erg. Cripes.

[mongrelheart]

Manager: Most of the trainers tend to shy away from putting clients through too-strenuous workout. If they do it to someone not expecting it, it scares them and they never come back.
Heheh... yeah, as irritating as this is, it is their concession to the average person who walks thru the door. They need to keep people (and $$) coming back. I mean, I can see where they're coming from when the client is a person who's completely new to this, someone who may never have exercised in their life. But for somebody like you who knows what's up & just wants to hop back on that horse, it is annoying for sure.

Heheh, I just watched "Todd vs the rower". I agree, v. painful! But good to see some proper instruction at the end.

Every Crossfit gym is different, all of them being independent franchises, but from my experience, the level of expertise of the instructors tends to be above & beyond the average big-box gym. Not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if rowing technique is part of the certification they go through.

[kaigou]

I get the not wanting to scare the newbs by working them hard. But it's a little different when one way of scaring the newbs is by letting them see someone else working hard. I mean, I'm 5'6". I am not, by any stretch, that impressive. If I were a musclebound gym-rat with no neck, okay, but there are lots of those (there always are), and they're a hell of a lot more likely to scare the newbs. Hell, some of them annoy me, and I've been in and out of gyms most of my life.

Most gyms do have at least one erg these days, it seems, but all of them stick the erg back in the corner behind the free weights. They're never with the rest of the cals machines, which frustrates me. Why can't I watch tv while rowing, same as those folks on the treadmills? Discrimination, oi. Although one gym I checked out (years ago), I asked casually about an erg, and the guy went blank for a minute before saying, oh, rowing machine! And then walked me over to some... thing. I don't know what it was. I told him, this is not an erg. It's a... something. For sculling a dinghy. With a fixed seat. Not an erg. He insisted it was an erg. I told him he was welcome to keep thinking so, but I'd take my money somewhere the people had a clue. Sheesh.

Don't know if Crossfit gets rowing training, but turns out one of the Crossfit franchises here in town co-sponsors a "learn to row" day for people to come out and see what it's like on the water. Which sounds great in theory, but I've worked with complete novices, and cripes, I hope those coaches get hazard pay. Novices. *shudder*

[mongrelheart]

He insisted it was an erg. I told him he was welcome to keep thinking so, but I'd take my money somewhere the people had a clue. Sheesh.
LOL, reminds me of the time I went into a Sports Authority store and asked if they had foam rollers and they had no idea what I was talking about. Seriously, a fitness store & the people who work there don't know "squat" (ahaha, I slay me)!

[kaigou]

Hahaha, I know what foam rollers are... but that's the second thing I think of. The first reaction I have is, "have you tried the hardware store? look in the paint aisle."

*snerk*

[miffy_sees]

How do you like kettlebells? What do you use them for? Do you see any unique advantages and disadvantages of using them versus traditional weights?

/questions :D

[mongrelheart]

Well, some would say that a kettlebell is just a weight. Which is true but, because of the unique shape (weight with a handle), it does have some great advantages versus traditional free weights. The basic motion, a two-handed swing, is a full body motion that combines cardio and strength in one movement, which means you get more bang for your buck. You can do a short workout & it really kicks your metabolism in the @$$. I've also heard that because the weight is off center, it brings more benefits in terms of stability (recruiting more of the core, stabilizer muscles). (To be fair, there are ways to use traditional barbells & dumbells to get this benefits as well). There are other benefits too, you are swinging the weight in a ballistic motion so it's good for strengthening the joints & for increasing mobility. Another, practical advantage is that it's cheaper & takes up less room, as all you need is one kettlebell, as opposed to an array of different weights.

In addition to the swing there are other moves you can do such as the Turkish get-up (going from a lying position to a standing position while holding the KB above you), snatch (one handed motion ending with the KB over your head), squat (while holding the KB up in front of you), high pull (pulling the KB from the ground to under your chin), etc. Plus, simply walking around holding a KB one-handed overhead, is a great movement.

[kaigou]

The trainer introduced me to one exercise (no idea of the formal name) that... probably looks wierd, but it felt awesome. Just a mild squat, nothing deep, then swing the kettlebell down between your legs and then up in front of you. I'm so used to free weights where the point is to always control your muscles (no wild swinging or letting your body flail), but the momentum in this exercise was purposeful. It felt less like I was raising and lowering the weight and more like it was doing the exercise to me, in a way.

It was somewhere between a little bit of calisthenics, a little bit of weight-lifting, and a little bit of a stretch. Just the perfect amount of burn at the time, and the perfect amount of soreness the day after. Eeeeeeeee.

[mongrelheart]

Ayup, that's the KB swing, the foundation movement. Simple yet very powerful!

[taithe]

It's interesting to read about your experiences getting back into shape. I'm trying to do it myself, but I've never had much diligence regarding exercise in the first place... Weights in particular are scary to me, because (kinda what you mentioned in your previous post) I don't know what's supposed to be appropriate soreness versus "ow, you're doing it wrong" pain.

India and Thailand are my top two places to visit for cuisine Spicy food is like a drug -- the endorphin rush can be amazing. I know a lot of people who can't tolerate the spice though, so there's always mangoes, coconuts, delicious desserts, and rice to feast on while you're there! It's awesome you list Taiwan along with China. Mmm oyster vermicelli...

[kaigou]

Taiwan is on my list thanks to a show I watched a year or so ago, that was sponsored by the Taiwan board of tourism. The only thing they'd requested was that certain locations and special Taiwanese elements (like the Night Market, and certain well-known cuisines) be featured. The show managed to very cleverly work in places like the Taiwanese museum, and Sun-Moon Lake, as well as the old Portuguese cathedral in Taichung. BUT. Nearly every episode, the characters ate somewhere, and always something that's a regional specialty (of wherever they were). Every time food would show up, the translators kindly put in an explanation, that sometimes took up most of the screen above the subtitles. I was pausing more than watching. And drooling. Lots. Wish to See You Again is the usual rom-com with the usual 3/4 stage lag o' angst, but if you skip past that, the tourism stuff slipped in there is awesome. I figure when we finally visit Taiwan, I'll just rewatch the show and this time, take notes!

Machines are frequently scary because they're often hogged by big muscle-bound guys who look at any woman (in shape or not, younger or older) as though the woman is trespassing. (It's a lot better now than it used to be, trust me.) But machines have one particular really good feature: any given machine locks you into doing an exercise one way, isolating certain muscles. Unlike free weights, or calisthenics, you can't wobble, or over-use your dominant arm, etc. Just starting out, then machines are one of the best ways (at least in my experience/knowledge) to get started, without the worry about 'doing it wrong'.

Much of the reason I fussed about where/when it hurts is because the exercises the first trainer gave me were cable-based, so I was basically pulling on a counter-weighted cord. That meant my body could flex and move around, which opens the question of whether my back is straight or too-straight or bent, whether my shoulders are curved when I should hold them back, etc. When I've got more stamina/muscle (inside a month, probably), I'll be better able to handle that kind of exercise and be able to control my body so I can hold a proper position.

Getting into shape... there are three parts, from what I can tell. (Mongrelheart might be more knowledgeable, and I bet plenty of other folks are, too, so grain of salt b/c this is just as it's been explained to me.) First is calisthenics, like treadmill or bike or aerobics. This is aerobic activity, when your heart rate should be elevated but not too high, just a little higher, like moving fast down the hallway or up a flight of stairs. Not enough to get you winded, just enough to feel like you've been moving around. Next is calisthenics but at a higher intensity, which is anaerobic activity; that's when your heart rate is way-elevated, you're probably out of breath or getting there. Aerobic activity will burn the highest amount of fat; anaerobic and you're into burning less of fat and more other stuff (and when you'll get lactic acid in the muscles). But! Anaerobic is very important, because that's where you build up major cardiac strength. So on the treadmill, say, you'd do enough to be aerobic (mid-intensity) and then for a minute or two, push yourself harder (go anaerobic), then take it down again and go easy until your heart settles, then push again.

All that does, however, is burn fat and make your heart strong. (Which are good, just not good enough!) Neither really builds muscle per se. For that, you need to include weights and resistance, which is where the machines come in. Just doing stairs or bike or aerobics will burn fat, but you're not replacing it with anything beneficial. You want endurance/stamina, strength, you need muscle for that. Plus, no matter how much you jump up and down in aerobics class, it's out-of-shape muscles that can't handle strain and will get hurt easily. In-shape muscles prevent general injuries and aches from things like getting groceries out of your trunk, shoving open a heavy door, etc.

If you don't have a background as an athlete in a competitive sport that required major team-shared exercises like running, lifting weights, and cals... then in that case, I would definitely recommend getting a trainer. If nothing else, knowing you have a twice-weekly appointment will get you there. And if you're not used to things, the trainer is there to encourage you -- and if you're intimidated by the machines (or the big lugs standing around looking muscle-bound) the trainer's presence acts like a kind of silent hall pass to be there, or a kind of psychological backup that affirms you should be taken seriously. (Plus no one will glare or snarl at you with a trainer around, if that ever worries you.)

Whatever you do, don't take my complaints to heart. They're very much the complaints of someone who spent way too long in a sport that's brutal, requires a high level of masochism -- and (to my detriment now) was less regulated when I was in school. We didn't get info about how to eat right, and we didn't get tracked for whether we were pushing ourselves too much or in the wrong ways. Which means every time I go back to the gym, I unlearn and relearn a little more. That frustrates me almost as much as not being as strong as I once was, and I'm well aware I'm not the norm! Don't be thinking I am. I'm kinda out-there, in this case. xD

[mongrelheart]

someone who spent way too long in a sport that's brutal, requires a high level of masochism -- and (to my detriment now) was less regulated when I was in school. We didn't get info about how to eat right, and we didn't get tracked for whether we were pushing ourselves too much or in the wrong ways.
I totally hear ya on that! When i did gymnastics, track, & crew in high school & college, they never told us a darn thing about proper nutrition, overtraining, sleep, rest days, anything like that. I'm sure they pay a lot more attention to those subjects these days ( it's been a long time for me, I'll be 44 this year).

[kaigou]

Both trainers (like all the ones before them) asked about diet, and once again, I had to go through the song and dance of why I will never, ever, ever, go on a "diet" in the formal sense. I will eat smart and I will try to watch my protein and carbs and whatnot, but I will not diet. Not after doing lightweights my senior year in high school, when the only message I got was that if I wanted to race, I had to weigh 120. Period. Non-negotiable. I either lost the weight, or I didn't race. Same message for two other teammates, and I spent that spring on a four-day-a-week eating schedule. Snack on monday, skip tuesday, eat an entire pizza after school on wednesday, skip thursday, have pasta on friday night, weigh in saturday morning (119.5lbs damn it), have three donuts before the race, eat Saturday night, eat Sunday night. That kind of 'diet' isn't a diet, it's cruel and unusual punishment on your body. No surprise I had teammates who ended up in the hospital when the season ended.

Granted, my coaches did instruct us about rest days, and did try to keep us from overtraining. It was just the nutrition part of it (combined with the need to be about 10 lbs lighter than I should be, while at the same time working out heavily six days a week) that got totally skipped. We were left to our own devices on that score. When I went on the South Beach diet a few years back, I read the intro sections and was all: whoa, so that's protein! Oh, so that's what a complex carb is! So that's what's meant by "balanced" diet! I had no idea! *eyeroll*

[hollyberries]

I'm in the boat of trying to get into shape without having ever been in shape, so apparently all my muscle groups being sore all the time is a thing now.

The regional food show won a lot of awards in China, as far as I recall. I have the .mp4s raw, so if you ever want them, let me know!

[kaigou]

I've got all of season 1, but I hear there are more seasons. Sadly, I only have subs for the first two episodes, but someone's supposed to be working their way through the rest. I await the subs anxiously, but next time I'll watch after I eat. Otherwise, it's as bad as going to the grocery store when you're hungry. That kind of torture.

The all-sore feeling just takes time to become a 'good' sensation. At first, you might feel like it's wrong, on some level, because it's unfamiliar. And we do learn quite young that pain = bad, so sore muscles get taken to mean "bad", too. But they're not. It should be a low-grade soreness, enough to ache the next day but be mostly gone by the third day. If it aches for more than two days, you worked too hard. Ease up a little. And a lesson it took me years to learn: it's okay to take Advil the day after, if you really ache. For years, I thought the post-workout ache was something you just had to bear, and never realized it's okay to give yourself a break on that. Don't make my mistake!