shinsen, shinsen, take me away
24 Oct 2007 10:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaigouWhen it comes to fansubs, I find Shinsen and Anime-Keep are the top two for colloquially-accurate, articulate, succinct (and sometimes even poetic) translations -- I've even watched the professional subtitles later and found them lacking in grace, compared to the quality of those two groups. (Anime-Kraze can be inconsistent, but at its best, it's close in quality as well.)
One joy about fansubs (even when I know full well I'll be buying the final/official release) is comparing the different translations. I know some groups, when unsure about terms in one or the other language, will settle on the most literal, and that can also reveal meanings I might miss in someone else's version; the more confusing or connotation-laden an expression, the more help there is in comparing the differing interpretations. Okay, that's common sense, but man, sometimes I can't help but be astounded at how complex it is to translate between two languages that lack even a basic root (unlike, say, French and English, as fellow romance languages).
Frex, at the end of ep2 of G-00, a top pilot for the Union (stand-in for the North American allies) manages to cross paths with a lone Gundam returning from the latest mission. The pilot, Graham Acre (and I must mention again that this guy is ace-pilot at... wait for it... a realistic age of 27, my god, where are the prepubescent twits in this series?), was present when Seiei (who flies Exia) first appeared. Since then, he and his friend/peer Billy Katagiri, an engineering/technical consultant for the Union, have been working to deduce what they can from their observationdeku s and the Gundams' own actions. Naturally Acre jumps on the chance to meet Seiei head-on, and see what more he can learn (and even, hopefully, capture the pilot/suit).
[Shades of previous series dance before my eyes, in that Acre isn't successful, but he does successfully collect information about the Gundam's power, mobility, and even its pilot. Billy notes, "it would've been worth losing the Flag if that were the cost of what we've learned." Haha, but Acre didn't have to, are you paying attention, Zechs? I find it a telling characterization, too, that Acre notes Exia's pilot is young; he says he could tell from the way the pilot moved. More on that in a later post, however.]
As Acre intercepts Seiei, he yells an explanation for his chutzpah. Now, I can't recall the first version I heard, but I think it was GundamSnet's version in which Acre hollers, "you have captivated my heart!" ... which is a rather, erm, emotional thing to say. (Not to mention fodder for the slash-fans.) I imagine the gist, slash-goggles removed, could be: I'm intrigued/fascinated by you.
...Except in ep3, in a conversation between Acre, Katagiri and a consulting professor, the topic turns to capturing a Gundam to study its technology. Acre gives the professor a week to update Acre's Flag to a level closer to the Gundam's power/mobility; in all versions I've seen, the professor's response is pretty much, "you're an unreasonable man [for demanding so much with that deadline]." In the Conclave-Mendoi translation, this is the exchange.
So contrary to my usual patterns of finding one fansub group for a series and sticking with it, I went ahead and d/l'ed Nyoro-n's Xvid/avi version when it came out a few days later. Curiously enough, that same conversation then became this:
Oh, come on, Shinsen, hurry up with your fansub so I can hear what experienced cross-linguistic translators think is the best version... because I'm not sure how both can be right!
I mean, really. Just the lyrics of the opening song, alone, show how hard it must be to pick amongst Japanese's preference for implication/inferral against English's preference for expressive metaphor. Here's a line-up of the different versions I've seen so far, just for amusement factor.
Boy.
Really makes a person stand back and be amazed at the difficulties in translating, and doubly impressed by those who do it well.
One joy about fansubs (even when I know full well I'll be buying the final/official release) is comparing the different translations. I know some groups, when unsure about terms in one or the other language, will settle on the most literal, and that can also reveal meanings I might miss in someone else's version; the more confusing or connotation-laden an expression, the more help there is in comparing the differing interpretations. Okay, that's common sense, but man, sometimes I can't help but be astounded at how complex it is to translate between two languages that lack even a basic root (unlike, say, French and English, as fellow romance languages).
Frex, at the end of ep2 of G-00, a top pilot for the Union (stand-in for the North American allies) manages to cross paths with a lone Gundam returning from the latest mission. The pilot, Graham Acre (and I must mention again that this guy is ace-pilot at... wait for it... a realistic age of 27, my god, where are the prepubescent twits in this series?), was present when Seiei (who flies Exia) first appeared. Since then, he and his friend/peer Billy Katagiri, an engineering/technical consultant for the Union, have been working to deduce what they can from their observationdeku s and the Gundams' own actions. Naturally Acre jumps on the chance to meet Seiei head-on, and see what more he can learn (and even, hopefully, capture the pilot/suit).
[Shades of previous series dance before my eyes, in that Acre isn't successful, but he does successfully collect information about the Gundam's power, mobility, and even its pilot. Billy notes, "it would've been worth losing the Flag if that were the cost of what we've learned." Haha, but Acre didn't have to, are you paying attention, Zechs? I find it a telling characterization, too, that Acre notes Exia's pilot is young; he says he could tell from the way the pilot moved. More on that in a later post, however.]
As Acre intercepts Seiei, he yells an explanation for his chutzpah. Now, I can't recall the first version I heard, but I think it was GundamSnet's version in which Acre hollers, "you have captivated my heart!" ... which is a rather, erm, emotional thing to say. (Not to mention fodder for the slash-fans.) I imagine the gist, slash-goggles removed, could be: I'm intrigued/fascinated by you.
...Except in ep3, in a conversation between Acre, Katagiri and a consulting professor, the topic turns to capturing a Gundam to study its technology. Acre gives the professor a week to update Acre's Flag to a level closer to the Gundam's power/mobility; in all versions I've seen, the professor's response is pretty much, "you're an unreasonable man [for demanding so much with that deadline]." In the Conclave-Mendoi translation, this is the exchange.
Acre: I need to be, to seduce a Gundam.*blinks*
Katagiri: He's quite infatuated.
So contrary to my usual patterns of finding one fansub group for a series and sticking with it, I went ahead and d/l'ed Nyoro-n's Xvid/avi version when it came out a few days later. Curiously enough, that same conversation then became this:
Acre: I need to be, to steal a Gundam.*blinks again*
Katagiri: That's why I fell for him.
Oh, come on, Shinsen, hurry up with your fansub so I can hear what experienced cross-linguistic translators think is the best version... because I'm not sure how both can be right!
I mean, really. Just the lyrics of the opening song, alone, show how hard it must be to pick amongst Japanese's preference for implication/inferral against English's preference for expressive metaphor. Here's a line-up of the different versions I've seen so far, just for amusement factor.
| japanese | gundamSnet | nyoro-n | shinsen |
| Nee konna katachi no deai shika nakatta no? Kanashii ne | Hey, haven't you seen another shape than this one? That's sad... | Hey, was this the only way we could meet? It's sad... | Hey, is this the only way we can meet? It's sad... |
| Anata ni shindemo ayamete hoshiku mo nai onegai | I'd rather die, instead of seeing you murder, oh please | Please, even if it costs me my life, I don't want to kill you | I don't want you to die or kill, please |
| Unmei sae nomikomade shizumisouna umi e to | Drink it up, even the fate, to the sinking sea | Even destiny can be engulfed and sink into the sea | To the sea that could even sink and swallow destiny |
| Negai yo kaze ni notte yoake no kane wo narase yo | My wishes, ride on the wind, ring the bell of the daybreak | My wish is to ride upon the wind and ring daybreak's bell | My wish, ride on the wind and ring daybreak's bell |
| Tori no you ni my wishes over their airspace | Just like a bird, my wishes over their airspace | Like a bird, my wishes over their airspace | Like a bird, my wishes over their airspace |
| Musuu no nami wo koe Asu en tachimukau anata wo mamoritamae | Cross through the countless waves, stand against tomorrow, protecting you | I'm crossing through the countless waves and crossing tomorrow to protect you | Protecting you, who crosses over many waves standing up to tomorrow |
| My life I trade in for your pain | |||
| Furimukazu habatake kono omoi wo hakonde ano sora wo tondeku | Flap your wings without turning around, bring along these thoughts, fly to that sky | Take this wish and fly through that sky, without turning around | Don't turn around and soar, carrying my heart through that sky |
| Mirai wa dare ni mo uchiotosenai | The future can't be defeated by anyone | The future won't be shot down by anyone | No one can shoot down my wish |
Boy.
Really makes a person stand back and be amazed at the difficulties in translating, and doubly impressed by those who do it well.
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no subject
Date: 25 Oct 2007 05:57 am (UTC)I was like, "They certainly can't be making the slash that easy!"
If someone ever gets it straight as to what Katagiri said then I'd love to see it.
no subject
Date: 25 Oct 2007 04:54 pm (UTC)It's sort of a halfway point between Conclave-Mendoi's "he's quite infatuated" and Nyoro-n's version, which could be read as "I'm quite infatuated"... the lynchpin could be the translator's mis-hearing or mis-interpreting the implied subject. That is, unsure who Katagiri is saying is obsessed/infatuated.
So I'm going (for now, until I can corner a Japanese speaker and/or see Shinsen's version) with the idea that Katagiri is telling the professor that Acre is simply infatuated (with possible tone/implication that this is a quality that Katagiri personally likes/admires, as well).
no subject
Date: 25 Oct 2007 06:03 am (UTC)I have been somewhat overwhelmed by the amount of characters and trying to keep everyone straight. I blinked several times at the 'that's why I fell for him' line too.
no subject
Date: 25 Oct 2007 04:58 pm (UTC)See note above about the peculiar line, though I must add that in some places it seems like the translators are freely putting on the slash goggles in their subtitles. Which, to be honest, strikes me as odd, since the Gundam world (for the most part) has longtime seen the yaoi/slash contingent attached to Gundam W as a sort of oddball red-headed stepchild: half-glad of more Gundam fans in the world, but still not entirely sure what to do with those women in the corner ogling pictures of naked pilots. (What's wrong with them? Don't they know a real Gundam fan only ogles pictures of
nakeddeconstructed mecha!?)I wasn't sure whether I'd do a report after each episode with preliminary analysis, but if folks are willing to read it, I enjoy writing such things. My brain could use the break from contract-hunting and kitchen-renovation, after all. It's good exercise. ;-)