eh, whatever, I shall now rant, because I can.

[kaigou]

I will, eventually, create a program that will send electrical shocks to authors who overuse cliches. This will be the great work of my lifetime. Those who insist on 'braided boy' and 'banged boy' and 'perfect soldier' in a fandom that will not be named, will obviously get it worse than most. But I'm sure it'd be easy, once we have the technology, to adapt the prog to any set of cliches we wish. I'd also like to program the system to raise the jolt level for each mention of eye color, especially during lemons, especially lemons taking place IN A DARK ROOM. It's frickin' dark, damn it, you can't SEE the person's eye color or their hair color!

And so, in that vein, I now posit the notion that all these people writing guys talking at length, during sex, are authors on DRUGS. For instance, in your average female-written fanfic, the conversation-during-sex contains lines like these:

1. "Oh, you're the light of my existence, my heart is always yours, and I could never measure how much you mean to me..."

For which I can't even muster a comment because this is supposed to be in the MIDDLE of sex? When the sex is good and hot, most people report that entire vocabularies get knocked down to nothing bigger than one syllable and we won't even get into the impossibility of complete sentences. Because, y'know, gray matter is allegedly currently busy thinking complex thoughts like BASEBALL! and WAH! and OH SHIT! and BASEBALL!

2. "You're so precious to me, my little one..."

Kill it. Kill it now. No extra points for moronic nickname usage, either. Actually, combining extensive sappy dialogue during sex with atrocious nicknames should probably be a good case for instant electrocution. I'll make a note to work that into the program.

2. "Ooh, baby, I'm gonna make you scream my name!"

A line heard only in bad porn. Really. The reason you don't hear it in real life is because no reasonable adult can hear a line like that and not crack up, thus killing the mood because one-half of the participants is in hysterics from teh stupid.

So! Clearly these writers haven't been having actual sex. Had they had actual sex with actual men, they would've known that the conversation would be more like this:

*pant*pant*pant*

"Ugh...unhh..."

*pant*groan*pant*

When I say "nuff said", that applies on so many levels.

AND, for the record, if you are a sappy-styled writer and want to take offense at the fact that I think sappy-styled lemons are highly unrealistic, if making for great comedy (which I'll admit is probably not the sappy-styled writer's intent), then you're perfectly welcome to take offense elsewhere. No one's making you read this, and no one's making me read your sappy-styled lemons either, which is a damn good thing or I might end up even more of a psychotic bastard than I already am.

Comments

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

Had they had actual sex with actual men, they would've known that the conversation would be more like this:

*laughs* I have to tell Jay we've been doing it wrong. ^_^

[mikkeneko.livejournal.com]

Baseball?

[arcanetheorem.livejournal.com]

Man, oh, man. That sounds like something I'd buy stock options for XD I'd even mow over those smart-grannies that know a thing or two about investments---especially when pain is involved somehow to the younger generation.

I am thinking about doing a fanfic contest for NaruSasu/SasuNaru---have been thinking about doing it for a while, actually. So far, it's on the backburner, but I'll probably get around to it soon, just because I can't friggin' take it anymore, either T_T (You’ll see how this relates to your subject near the bottom, I promise).

Why, god, why must you torment us with poorly written lemons, bad baby-talk, and unrealistic sexual positions?

I agree with everything you said. And more. My #1 lemon pet-peeve:

Coming at the same time.

What the hell? Is it just me, or have I missed out on important sexual information in the past few years? Is this some sort of new phenomenon where *both* men manage to 'come' at the same time in every relationship? Wow. They must have some spot-on timing during sex, ‘cause I’ve never heard of it---my gay friends are confused by this, as well as I am. What’s the appeal of this, because I’m just lost. It seriously irks me when I see it happen, though a lot of good lemons that are in the fandom have this pet peeve of mine, but still... ;_____; I cry.

If you want to see the contest and how it pertains to your particular argument, go here:
http://arcanetheorem.livejournal.com/tag/contest

Thanks for illuminating some of the things that I've been gritting my teeth over for the past few years :D

[patosan.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, so true! I think you can tell a bad lemon writer from a mile away, though, without even getting to the sex part.

[tayles.livejournal.com]

Just... amen, sister. T'is a noble project you work on, and though I myself may have to deal with the occassional shock from the keyboard I heartily approve the fact that other writers will be getting it much, much worse.

[ravensilver.livejournal.com]

Actually, the talking during sex is based in the japanese Yaoi Mangas. You should "read" Youka Nitta's Haru wo Daiteita series. I've *never* seen men talk so much than in her mangas - while having hot, steamy sex, mind you... *gg*

But I truly agree with you on the previously mentioned braided boys, bakas and perfect soldiers. When I started reading GW FFs, I hadn't seen the series yet, so these cliches were guidelines for me so that I could tell who I was dealing with. But after seeing the series, I really couldn't relate to those anymore.
I remember reading a wonderful essay on LJ on Duo. It was absolutely perfect! Unfortunately, the author got so many negative comments, that she janked it off LJ. To this day I'm glad I printed it out. She was really defending him and his masculinity.

Writing sex scenes is difficult, I think. I write best when I, myself, am in the mood (despite the fact that I haven't had any in quite a while - I *do* know quite well how it works... *gg*). And as you say, if you haven't had any personal experience, it will be difficult to write about it with true authority.

I guess the basic problem is that most Fanfiction authors are very, very young. And tend very strongly towards purple prose. And have very little personal experiences to draw on. *sigh*

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

Actually, I have another pet peeve that - usually - makes me drop the fanfic on the spot and go read something else. I just can't stand it when the macho characters declare so-and-so to be their property and go:

"(...) Sasuke decided no one would hurt his dobe." (or something along these lines)

His? HIS? AUGH! Why do they always DO this? T_T *sighs*

[christeos-pir.livejournal.com]

"I'm going to do for you what no man has ever done!"
"What, clean my bathroom?"

[leorising1959.livejournal.com]

Thank you. You are my new hero.

I had a comment conversation with a reader the other day at the brokebackslash forum. She was reading a chapter of my fic where one man is not pleased about the fact his dick got dirty -- dirty with shit, mind you -- and the other offers to help him clean up, which of course results in happihappishower!sex.

The sum total of the reader's first comment: "EEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!"

I wrote back: "Heh. Realities of anal sex, I'm afraid."

She replied with a rude bit about that's why condoms were invented, blah blah, your basic "I don't read fic for reality", and finishing off with "Don't write like this again EVAR!!!!1!" (I'm paraphrasing, but not much.)

Realizing this was a lost cause, I thanked her for her thoughts. Then it occurred to her write back and say, oh, BTW, good fic. *laughs*

What I wanted to say to her, had I the slightest inkling it would not fall on deaf ears: "These are cowboys. They have probably, at some time, stuck their entire arm up a cow's ass for some reason or another. Assholes, dicks and shit are no mystery to them. THEY ARE NOT CITY GIRLS! They are rough, tough, rural MEN. Get the fuck over it."

*pants*

[/rant]

Not like it was a huge deal, although it might not sound like it after that little diatribe. She's obviously just young and dumb. The fact is, though, that I hatehatehate it when authors turn men into fawning little women, especially tough men like cowboys or killers. I like men, dammit. They're sweaty and crude and muscle-y and all sorts of yummy things. Let's not throw that out for the sake of a little girly "romance."

And yeah, I dislike the whole "braided baka" thing too, though not as much. I think authors use it as an alternative to using the person's name, no? As if, somehow, using a description of the person makes the prose better. These would be the same people who have a conniption trying not to use the same word twice in the same xxx number of words.

Hm. I thought I'd stopped ranting. Whooops.

Sorry I took over your LJ to air my own stupid issues. Forgive me?

And yeah, I'd buy that machine in a heartbeat. Does it come with a fangirl adapter?

^_^

[leorising1959.livejournal.com]

*dies*

[sarolynne.livejournal.com]

...You forgot people who are prone to random, incoherent expletives.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Just tell him that clearly you have practice more! *nods firmly*

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Old joke about what men gotta think about to make sex last as long as possible -- one trick is to distract themselves momentarily. I always took it as a compliment, myself, when I found out they were busy doing that, since it meant they were otherwise overwhelmed by the experience.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Oh! Yes! The coming-together, I think, is from romance novels. The same ones where two people having sex for the first time automatically can time everything together so they come, including the woman. Because inter-vaginal orgasms are so easy, everyone can do it! *snort* It's one of those fantasy, romantic elements.

The alternate of course, is the echo of the one-two-three finger approach, in which one-half comes and the other has not two, not four, but three more thrusts and comes. Uh...right. Whatever.

My recent favorite line from a fic is Maldoror's Gaara/Lee (yeah! I know!) story in which the two have sex for the first time, and Lee's pretty sure it gets better. Gaara asks how, and Lee says he's pretty sure it's supposed to last longer. I just about died laughing.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Yeah, in some fandoms you just know what to look for. Hell, these days if I start to read a GW fic, I simply shut it down at the first mention of use of braided, banged, perfect, angelic, dragon, or safehouse. Outta there.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Same here. *nods firmly* It's worth the cost to us to see some of the most egregious get electrocuted.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

I guess the basic problem is that most Fanfiction authors are very, very young. And tend very strongly towards purple prose. And have very little personal experiences to draw on.

That just makes for repetitious lemons, I've found. The most egregious offenders of the sappy-styled lemons appear to be women in their thirties and forties, and these are women who I would've thought would know better -- and I suspect their "knowledge" is a great part of what shapes the younger fanficcers' romanticism and sappy-styles.

Oi, who wrote the essay, is she still on LJ, and is it possible to get her to post it again? Be great to read that.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Oh! Oh! Oh! Definitely another gripe comment, in certain contexts. I do think some personalities will use "you're mine" as a mating call (oddly, I think Duo is among those), but up until yesterday afternoon I wouldn't have said anyone in Naruto falls in that category. And really, if you took out "his dobe" and put in "his teammate" then it's definitely canon! Word choice, I suppose.

Then again, given that the last we saw Naruto he was going bonkers and destroying himself literally all because Orochimaru called Sasuke "his" -- ahem, well. Uh, canon for at least Naruto's point of view...

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

They have probably, at some time, stuck their entire arm up a cow's ass for some reason or another. Assholes, dicks and shit are no mystery to them.

*dies laughing*

Yeah, well, farm boys.

Authors do have -- and I went through this phase myself, for some unknown reason (because I should have known better but it is a sort of style within every fandom) -- a phobia about using the character's name too often. Like readers are finding it boring or something; they don't seem to realize that we simply don't 'see' a character's name unless or until you use it solely with no pronouns. That's the only time it becomes obtrusive. Fear of being boring, I suppose.

Fangirl adapters for all!

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

What, under good or bad? I'm trying to visualize incoherent expletives, since I've heard (and said) my share of "oh, fu..." during sex -- but again with the "inability to actually complete an idea, let alone a complex sentence" while in the act. Brain splodey, if you're doing it right!

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Bwahah.

[miyabiarashi.livejournal.com]

"Little one" makes me wonder if the couple in question has a large age difference. -_-

[ravensilver.livejournal.com]

Oi, who wrote the essay, is she still on LJ, and is it possible to get her to post it again? Be great to read that.

It's somewhere in my huge piles of (unpacked) stuff. When I find it, I'll let you know. But as far as I could tell, she was so scared by the responses, that she shut down her LJ and was never heard from again... *deepsigh*

[sarolynne.livejournal.com]

I see the point. It was more the idea that an "Oh, fuck..." is more likely than spouting poetry.

This is a topic that seems to keep coming up lately. The last time I was having a conversation with someone about realistic sex scenes, though, it digressed to in het, in a deep POV, there really wouldn't be any "secret places," or "sensitive bundle of nerves," or "core." We'd see a lot more people thinking of their anatomy as "Yes, there!

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

Well suuuure, within context, certainly! I've seen many fics where characters get all 'he's mah property'-like and, if well used, it's awesome. I just take exception to all the cases where it's not in context... even WORSE, when it is written as a slip of the mind.

I cannot count the number of fics I've dropped because a character is all: "Oh, I can't believe they did that to my XXX" and then said character goes into a 'introspective' rant as to WHY he just called XXX 'his' and this leads to, OMG, self-discovery of his love!

Though, admittedly, it CAN get worse... I've often seen this statement of property paired with stupid nicknames. (I think I even spotted a Kakashi fic where he thought of Iruka as 'his little dolphin')

Uh, canon for at least Naruto's point of view...

Weeeell, I can very well see Naruto putting a claim on Sasuke and pissing on him, to mark his territory XD

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

Maybe we can trace that particular trend straight into shouta fandoms? =_=

[windsorblue.livejournal.com]

One of my old boyfriends used to recite the periodic table to himself. Mostly to himself. Occasionally a 'hydrogen' or two would slip out. -_-;;

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

My brother calls his step-daughter "little one". She's twenty-something years younger than him, more than a foot shorter, and she hates the nickname. Actually, I don't know a single person under five-three who tolerates even remotely being called "shorty" or "little one" or any variant. And when there's a significant age difference, I've noticed neither partner really likes to be reminded too much of it; one feels inadequate for being too young, while the other one just feels old.

Maybe Toffee's right and there's a shouta tradition, but I think it's more fanficcers trying to be romantic and not actually thinking hard about what a person -- especially a guy -- would consider an acceptable endearment. I suspect "little one" ain't it.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Which, as I understand men's prostates, is about the same for either gender. I think the whole "get the right spot" is female ficcers' retaliation/inversion of the mythical g-spot (and I think I've only known one woman in my entire life who's claimed to have found that damn 'spot'). As one friend commented, "there's not really one specific spot, because if you're doing it right, it's all good."

!!!

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Weeeell, I can very well see Naruto putting a claim on Sasuke and pissing on him, to mark his territory XD

Shhh, or you might give askerian ideas.

Hm. Wait a minute.

*whistles for Asuka*

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

*snerk* One lover just said it, like, "baseball," whispered under his breath. I think I was 19, still not entirely sure if I was doing everything right, and more than a bit disturbed that he was busy thinking about something else. To his credit, he actually stopped long enough to explain to me that this was not because sex was bad, oh nonono, but too damn good.

What a way to make an inexperienced 19-yr-old go completely WAFFy. *snort* For a long time I was all like, "wah! I'm so good he had to distract himself!" and then I found out it's pretty much true for most guys. Hmph.

[crazy-toffee.livejournal.com]

... having never really read shouta I can't say my point is very strong. I also tend to think this problem stems from overly romantic fanficcers under 14 (and/or over 35).

But then again, I can't think of a SINGLE endearment any of my boyfriends/dates/friends would have found acceptable, other than shortening their names fom 'Daniel' to 'Dan' at most. O_o

[sharona1x2.livejournal.com]

I don't think he'll mind more practice. In fact, he may want to reward you for suggesting it. ^_^

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

When I was married the first time, people seemed to automatically assume that kids should be along any day, but between being broke with our own business (and then broke putting the ex through school), we couldn't afford kids. So we'd stall relatives/friends by telling them, "we're working on it, but we think we need more practice on the process, y'know, so once we've got this part down, then we'll move on to the next step." And then we'd both leer, and eventually everyone got the message (or started repeating the joke as their own).

[meritjubet.livejournal.com]

*applaudes* The truth never sounded sweeter *grins cheekily*

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

*takes a bow*

I'm here til Thursday! Try the veal!

[guiltyred.livejournal.com]

*laughing my ass off*

Hi, I found you through the gwanalysis comm, and loved this post! You summed up the peeves so well, I thought you might appreciate the irony of just how hard it is to DELIBERATELY write a crackfic lemon scene. I mentioned offhand to some friends that I should write one, and they basically dared me to go ahead with it.

It took me days to come up with the right/wrong way to do everything. It's Weiss Kreuz, but the stereotypes are pretty recognizable. If you'd like to see the insanity that ensued, click here: http://guiltyred-fics.livejournal.com/79113.html#cutid1

If not, at least you won't need eyebleach. ~_^

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

OMG that is just all sorts of wrong, beyond all wrong. Hats off to you -- writing a truly crack lemon is a damn hard thing to do without going bonkers (or sliding sideways into looking too much like what you're parodying and ending up with fangirls who think you've just written Teh World's Latest Bestest Sex, which is really scary when you realize half your fans didn't get the frickin' joke).

My response, I'd have to say, would be the one I wrote to scare a friend -- she didn't scream in horror, but I did get a slight squeak, and that alone made my day, my whole week, even. Since it starts with IC, the OOC is pretty obvious: A Most Despicable Thing (http://gwaddiction.com/p.php?title=Most+Despicable+Thing,+A&author=Sol+1056&to=&series=&part=&last=&authorpage=Sol.shtml&fic=./sol/despicable). Y'know, I think there are still people who hate me for that one.

I'm all about the peeves, baby.

[guiltyred.livejournal.com]

*grins* *bows* Thank you, thank you! I love parodying my own characters too, tortured them badly and will do so again for Halloween. You're invited to the crackage, starting October 1 and continuing through the Big One. ~_^ There will be multi-fandom references and seriously messed-uppedness. And Girl Scout Cookies.

And that's to pay you back for "A Most Despicable Thing", LOL!! It will take much crack to get even now. ~_^ I've only just begun.