religion and non-religion
7 Mar 2013 06:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaigouCurrently writing a scene in which the pivotal/cultural religion of the story's world takes center stage. This is rather odd for me, and I'm wondering if it is for anyone else.
For the most part, I'm an apatheist. For me, I don't disbelieve a god, nor believe; I just don't care. I live my life according to ethics and principles (not morals), and try to do good in this lifetime with no hope nor care for any after-life rewards. If there are, fine; if not, fine. Which really amounts to: I don't like ritual, I don't like organized religion, I don't care much for massive displays of faith/belief, or the trappings of either. I kind of look at all of it... not with a jaundiced eye so much as a disinterested one. Some people require ritual, especially of a social nature. I'm not one of them.
No surprise then that the religion I've devised for my central culture is a relatively ritual-free religion. It has a lot in common with Shinto, in that very few elements are public (no weekly sunday get-together), most of it's not just personal but also private/solitary. But for the story, it's also crucial that this religion have an obligatory aspect, as well. Certain people are considered automatically priests, and it's not always within the person's say. It's somewhat like the old European tradition that the youngest son always entered religious orders -- there wasn't much choice to the role. It was pretty much set from birth, fated.
Which, seeing how I'm rather lukewarm about ritual, it wouldn't be a surprise that obligatory ritual gets my goat even faster. Yet here I am, doing a scene in which a culture explains and justifies its obligatory ritual. And for the story's purposes, it's not right for me to subtly imply via the narrative that this is a wrong thing; to be true to the story, this must be seen as a right [for that religion and its adherents] thing.
It'd be very easy to write a story in which religion (any religion) gets its comeuppance, or gets dissed or shown to be wrong in some way. I've seen that, too, when some religions -- usually ones written as seriously-close analogues to existing/real religions -- are portrayed by authors who don't believe in that religion. It feels like a failure of empathy on the author's part, because they'd rather demonize the non-Christian (or non-Pagan, or non-Western, or non-Eastern) religion than see it from the other side. (For the record, I hate those stories even more, oddly. I don't like any religion demonized, even if that sounds strange given my intro.)
It actually feels harder to write -- believably -- characters who really do cherish, and respect, and feel obligated to fulfill, a set of religious precepts. It's like I can't quite see ever being so deep-down in it that I couldn't understand how one could not be, or believe, such-and-such. Like people I knew in college who tried desperately to convert me (since apparently Episcopalian doesn't really 'count' as A True Believer) -- they were absolutely flabbergasted, even genuinely hurt -- that I couldn't seem to see how So Very Important the issue of "what you believe" really was. To them, yes, but to them, their belief was an all-encompassing thing and thus I, as someone whom they otherwise felt something in common with or whatever, must therefore also have the same something inside me that would call me to belief just as strongly as it called them. If that makes sense. (It did in my head.)
That's really hard for me to write. I can't write strong-faith characters believably. (I could say fanatic, but with the caveat that my personal attitude kind of skews the grading curve; I'm so far below "casual religion" that someone who does church once a week and sometimes on Wednesday night get-togethers is practically a fanatic in comparison.) I have an even harder time writing someone trying to justify their fanaticism, which on a good day might just be Very Strong Belief.
Anyone else deal with this in stories, or read a work where you get the idea the author's dealing with it? Or the opposite -- an author with Strong Beliefs struggling to write non-believer characters? Any tips, ideas, something to help me make sure I'm not dissing characters who in all other ways deserve to be non-demonized and treated respectfully?
For the most part, I'm an apatheist. For me, I don't disbelieve a god, nor believe; I just don't care. I live my life according to ethics and principles (not morals), and try to do good in this lifetime with no hope nor care for any after-life rewards. If there are, fine; if not, fine. Which really amounts to: I don't like ritual, I don't like organized religion, I don't care much for massive displays of faith/belief, or the trappings of either. I kind of look at all of it... not with a jaundiced eye so much as a disinterested one. Some people require ritual, especially of a social nature. I'm not one of them.
No surprise then that the religion I've devised for my central culture is a relatively ritual-free religion. It has a lot in common with Shinto, in that very few elements are public (no weekly sunday get-together), most of it's not just personal but also private/solitary. But for the story, it's also crucial that this religion have an obligatory aspect, as well. Certain people are considered automatically priests, and it's not always within the person's say. It's somewhat like the old European tradition that the youngest son always entered religious orders -- there wasn't much choice to the role. It was pretty much set from birth, fated.
Which, seeing how I'm rather lukewarm about ritual, it wouldn't be a surprise that obligatory ritual gets my goat even faster. Yet here I am, doing a scene in which a culture explains and justifies its obligatory ritual. And for the story's purposes, it's not right for me to subtly imply via the narrative that this is a wrong thing; to be true to the story, this must be seen as a right [for that religion and its adherents] thing.
It'd be very easy to write a story in which religion (any religion) gets its comeuppance, or gets dissed or shown to be wrong in some way. I've seen that, too, when some religions -- usually ones written as seriously-close analogues to existing/real religions -- are portrayed by authors who don't believe in that religion. It feels like a failure of empathy on the author's part, because they'd rather demonize the non-Christian (or non-Pagan, or non-Western, or non-Eastern) religion than see it from the other side. (For the record, I hate those stories even more, oddly. I don't like any religion demonized, even if that sounds strange given my intro.)
It actually feels harder to write -- believably -- characters who really do cherish, and respect, and feel obligated to fulfill, a set of religious precepts. It's like I can't quite see ever being so deep-down in it that I couldn't understand how one could not be, or believe, such-and-such. Like people I knew in college who tried desperately to convert me (since apparently Episcopalian doesn't really 'count' as A True Believer) -- they were absolutely flabbergasted, even genuinely hurt -- that I couldn't seem to see how So Very Important the issue of "what you believe" really was. To them, yes, but to them, their belief was an all-encompassing thing and thus I, as someone whom they otherwise felt something in common with or whatever, must therefore also have the same something inside me that would call me to belief just as strongly as it called them. If that makes sense. (It did in my head.)
That's really hard for me to write. I can't write strong-faith characters believably. (I could say fanatic, but with the caveat that my personal attitude kind of skews the grading curve; I'm so far below "casual religion" that someone who does church once a week and sometimes on Wednesday night get-togethers is practically a fanatic in comparison.) I have an even harder time writing someone trying to justify their fanaticism, which on a good day might just be Very Strong Belief.
Anyone else deal with this in stories, or read a work where you get the idea the author's dealing with it? Or the opposite -- an author with Strong Beliefs struggling to write non-believer characters? Any tips, ideas, something to help me make sure I'm not dissing characters who in all other ways deserve to be non-demonized and treated respectfully?
no subject
Date: 18 Mar 2013 06:19 am (UTC)Er. Um. I'm guessing you really haven't spent much time in religious circles. Or, at least, the only ones you've spent time in have been some of the more strident "Conservative (American) Christian" ones. (I am politically conservative, and I am a devout Christian. I have a huge number of very, very large theological disagreements with the entirety of the "Conservative Christian" wing of American Protestantism for both theological and political reasons.)
The "not much to discuss, here" only holds true if you are speaking of believers in that particular interpretation. And there are very few points (if there are any at all) that are always interpreted the same by everybody. For example, if you ask me if the Bible is the Word of God, I will say yes. So will a fundamentalist. But if you ask us to explain what it means that the Bible is the Word of God, we will have vastly different explanations because we both mean different things when we say "The Bible is the Word of God."
Basically, a lot of religious people spend a lot of time debating theology and practical applications, and various interpretations thereof, and (at least in the Western Christianity with which I am most familiar) there tends to be a far wider degree of diversity of belief and practice at any given historical moment than is generally remembered today. So if I'm reading a story with religious characters (whether set in the real world or a fantasy/SF world) and everyone believes the same thing and interprets the sacred text the same and emphasizes the same bits of theology and practices everything the same way, I raise my eyebrows. Because that's not, in my experience, the way things actually go, even if the leaders of that particular group/kingdom/church/whatever would claim that everyone believed and worshiped exactly the same. There will be similarities, yes, but not identical anything.
It may help you to focus on relationships. From what I can tell, pretty much every religion focuses on two basic things: how its adherents relate to the divine (in whatever way that religion perceives the divine) and how they relate to each other. So, what kind of relationships do your characters have with the divine in this world you have created? Is it a personal relationship with a vaguely human-like deity or deities? Is it a more general sense of connection to the divine as found in some sort of a spirit world? How does their relationship with that divine affect their relationships with other people? How is all that different for Character A than it is for Character B? Then, once you have all of that planned out, ask yourself how those relationships would be ritually acted out, keeping in mind that no two people are going to believe and practice exactly the same way. Don't assume that nobody in this religion grapples with the problems you have, but at the same time don't assume they frame the question the same way you do, either.
If you're trying to make a sympathetic/understandable portrayal of why someone would do something that would normally be considered awful, don't focus on the awfulness of it (unless they're a sociopath, the character won't be focused on the awfulness of it). What are they trying to accomplish by doing that? What other evil are they trying to prevent? Even if, to you, it seems like a stupid evil, you have to take it seriously.
A historical example. Christians have, in some places and times, burned heretics and witches at the stake. This was, in many cases, seen as the merciful form of execution, more merciful than hanging. Why? Because it gives the heretic/witch time to repent. If you believe that someone will go to hell and be eternally tormented for the sins they have done/their wrong beliefs, then giving them as much time as possible during their final moments to change their mind and throw themselves on God's mercy and possibly escape Hell is the merciful thing to do. So, if you were asking someone who burned heretics alive why they did it, they might say something like "it's a horrible way to die, and I hate it, but I hate the idea of them going to Hell even more. The torment of these earthly flames is far, far less than they will have to endure if they go to Hell. I hope and pray they repent, and if burning alive helps them do it, then it is worth it."
I hope that helps. Thank you so much for being thoughtful and open-minded enough to ask these questions.
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