nuances of greetings
14 Jan 2011 12:37 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaigouI am completely baffled, because here's a language for which no one gives subtitles.
In jdramas, I've seen people bow when they greet, when they depart, when they apologize, and when they congratulate. Often it's multiple bows in the same space of time, such as bowing in greetings, to which the other person bows, and then there's a response bow. (This got parodied wonderfully in a short segment in the first episode of the kdrama, Coffee House.) From CP and Japanese friends, I have some understanding of the basic etiquette of bowing... but it's not doing me much good in understanding the nuances when I'm watching kdramas. At least, I can't just assume the two correlate, because when you deconstruct kdrama bows, the details and style are different -- enough that I'm not willing to just take it for granted that they mean the same or should be applied/understood the same way.
In kdramas, the bows seem to be for significant social distance -- when someone's your elder, when someone is your boss or higher, when someone is of a greater social standing, and especially when it's a woman to a man. The bow is rarely returned, not even marked as a nod.
For really important things like apologies, the kdrama bow is deep and held, otherwise it seems to consistently be a rapid drop-and-raise but still rather deep. The head leads in the downward movement until the upper body is parallel with the floor, then the shoulders lead in the upward movement as the person pops back upright. Sometimes it'll be several of those repeated in fast succession.
In jdramas, the head doesn't lead, the shoulders do. In fact, many of the more casual (greeting, departure) bows seem to be two-part. The torso comes forward to maybe a 45' angle, but the head only tips forward just a bit, and frequently the head is almost tilted. It's almost like the head bows a little sideways, to keep the other person in the line of sight, and in some cases, the angle of the torso also appears to twist or angle just a little, so eye contact isn't broken. Only once the torso is at its greatest angle does the head move, into a short or deep nod to echo the torso's movement. It's a very dignified motion, and the head-movement being last makes that echoing nod feel almost like the deliberate period at the end of the sentence-bow.
For jdrama really formal (ie apology) bows, the shoulders lead but the head, again, is on a separate line, so the chin remains up until the torso is parallel with the floor, and then the head tilts down with a sharp, delineated movement. What made me realize the difference is that in jdramas, when it's a deep bow for apology, the hair doesn't flip back or forwards until the bow is almost completed, because the head is held somewhat steady, then the chin goes down abruptly and the hair swings forward, in some cases covering the person's face.
In kdramas, the rapid up-down-up-down apology bows make the hair swing back and forth with the movement. I've also noticed that while jdramas sometimes show truncated bows -- only a slight lean forward of the shoulders, with the head-tilt emphasis indicating that it's an abbreviated, less-formal bow -- but kdramas rarely do a truncated bow.
Or, at least, it's harder to catch because it goes by so fast, when it does happen. The chin drops to the chest, and then the entire torso swings down with a quick lean forward, lean back. The face remains downcast and is only raised again once the torso is back to being fully vertical. That truncated, less-deep bow appears most common in kdramas among young women with male friends, and retail workers to customers.
Between female social equals (in age and status), bowing only seems to happen for apologies (not greeting or departure). Most apologies get one or two rapid bobbing-bows, and the deep held-bow is only pulled out for really big things, like stealing someone's boyfriend or wrecking someone's car.
I can't recall male social equals bowing to each other, except in cases of major apology; the men, from what I recall, mostly just give deeper nods, with maybe a slight sway forward in the shoulders, but otherwise the spine remains mostly vertical. A man also has a wider range of social equals, too, it seems, if I'm right in interpreting the "slight lean plus nod" as a truncated bow, given that I've seen kdrama men give this to each other, their bosses, and their parents. In the same situation with genders reversed, a kdrama woman would probably do several repeated full-depth bobbing-bows.
Only in deep major-social-difference bows, in a formal situation (like retail workers greeting the CEO), do the kdrama bows resemble the jdrama deep bow in terms of the bow's steady unhurried (not slow, just not hurried) speed. However, the head still leads, so there's no final chin-drop at the end; the chin is instead nearly at the chest for the entire bow, and seems to regularly expose the nape of the person bowing. (This stood out, because my understanding of Japanese etiquette is that one should not expose the nape of the neck when bowing. Something to do with being decapitated or, uhm, something.)
...And then there's the Taiwanese and Chinese dramas, where no one bows. I'm not used to bowing as a major interaction, so its absence took a bit to register, but bows in TW-dramas are very unusual. At most, where a jdrama or kdrama would bow, a tw-drama will give a brief nod. The nod is sometimes returned with an even briefer nod, but most of the time there's not even that.
The other thing is the posture. The posture of most jdrama actors seems to be relatively upright, with shoulders back. Only in the elderly or the very lowest social standing do I see hunched shoulders like someone who's spent a lot of time bowing. That hunched-shoulder posture is much more common in kdramas, especially for young female actresses, who (I suppose) spend a lot of time doing the rapid-fire bobbing-bow to their social superiors, which I guess would probably be just about everyone. Actually, the hunched-shoulder and curved spine of the kdrama heroine is pretty common, especially in romantic comedies.
In tw-dramas, the spine and posture are like the Japanese: upright, shoulders level, relaxed. There are exceptions (of course), but they show up in tandem with being much older, or working retail long-term. Other than the hunch/huddle of elderly bones, the hunched-shoulder posture of the kdrama -- when you see it in tw-dramas -- seems to indicate an obsequious person, or someone trying to be ingratiating or who lacks self-confidence. Whereas in kdramas, that hunched posture doesn't seem to be tied, contextually, to any comment about the person or any specific characterization.
Actually, come to think of it, other than the rare begging-bow (apology, or requesting a favor of a parent or superior), tw-dramas have shown more on-the-knees supplication. I've seen similar in jdramas, usually when it's potential-spouse with future in-laws. Tw-dramas, the on-the-knees seems to be the equivalent to the jdrama deep-and-held very formal apology-bow. Except that in tw-dramas, having gotten on their knees, the characters at most drop the chin; they don't bow further. Actually, I could clarify that further: the character will nod at the start, as though requesting permission to speak. The chin comes back up while speaking, but may drop again in another nod-bow at the end, in gratitude or acknowledgment for/of the listening person.
The only time I've seen on-the-knees in a kdrama was for a major supplication, and the chin was against the chest for the duration of the kneeling. Quite a contrast with the tw-dramas where on-the-knees is often accompanied by the chin being up, in what might even be characterized as a defiant position were it not for the kneeling.
I've found various essays/articles about bowing for Japanese culture, but none for Korea or Taiwan, and definitely none that compare the greeting/departure nuances between the three. If you watch any of those countries' dramas, or are familiar with any of the cultures directly, am I missing something that might explain the nuances? Do you see the same pattern, or do you see real-life patterns being different, and if so, any idea of why the drama-versions vary from real life and/or are so consistent in their presentation?
In jdramas, I've seen people bow when they greet, when they depart, when they apologize, and when they congratulate. Often it's multiple bows in the same space of time, such as bowing in greetings, to which the other person bows, and then there's a response bow. (This got parodied wonderfully in a short segment in the first episode of the kdrama, Coffee House.) From CP and Japanese friends, I have some understanding of the basic etiquette of bowing... but it's not doing me much good in understanding the nuances when I'm watching kdramas. At least, I can't just assume the two correlate, because when you deconstruct kdrama bows, the details and style are different -- enough that I'm not willing to just take it for granted that they mean the same or should be applied/understood the same way.
In kdramas, the bows seem to be for significant social distance -- when someone's your elder, when someone is your boss or higher, when someone is of a greater social standing, and especially when it's a woman to a man. The bow is rarely returned, not even marked as a nod.
For really important things like apologies, the kdrama bow is deep and held, otherwise it seems to consistently be a rapid drop-and-raise but still rather deep. The head leads in the downward movement until the upper body is parallel with the floor, then the shoulders lead in the upward movement as the person pops back upright. Sometimes it'll be several of those repeated in fast succession.
In jdramas, the head doesn't lead, the shoulders do. In fact, many of the more casual (greeting, departure) bows seem to be two-part. The torso comes forward to maybe a 45' angle, but the head only tips forward just a bit, and frequently the head is almost tilted. It's almost like the head bows a little sideways, to keep the other person in the line of sight, and in some cases, the angle of the torso also appears to twist or angle just a little, so eye contact isn't broken. Only once the torso is at its greatest angle does the head move, into a short or deep nod to echo the torso's movement. It's a very dignified motion, and the head-movement being last makes that echoing nod feel almost like the deliberate period at the end of the sentence-bow.
For jdrama really formal (ie apology) bows, the shoulders lead but the head, again, is on a separate line, so the chin remains up until the torso is parallel with the floor, and then the head tilts down with a sharp, delineated movement. What made me realize the difference is that in jdramas, when it's a deep bow for apology, the hair doesn't flip back or forwards until the bow is almost completed, because the head is held somewhat steady, then the chin goes down abruptly and the hair swings forward, in some cases covering the person's face.
In kdramas, the rapid up-down-up-down apology bows make the hair swing back and forth with the movement. I've also noticed that while jdramas sometimes show truncated bows -- only a slight lean forward of the shoulders, with the head-tilt emphasis indicating that it's an abbreviated, less-formal bow -- but kdramas rarely do a truncated bow.
Or, at least, it's harder to catch because it goes by so fast, when it does happen. The chin drops to the chest, and then the entire torso swings down with a quick lean forward, lean back. The face remains downcast and is only raised again once the torso is back to being fully vertical. That truncated, less-deep bow appears most common in kdramas among young women with male friends, and retail workers to customers.
Between female social equals (in age and status), bowing only seems to happen for apologies (not greeting or departure). Most apologies get one or two rapid bobbing-bows, and the deep held-bow is only pulled out for really big things, like stealing someone's boyfriend or wrecking someone's car.
I can't recall male social equals bowing to each other, except in cases of major apology; the men, from what I recall, mostly just give deeper nods, with maybe a slight sway forward in the shoulders, but otherwise the spine remains mostly vertical. A man also has a wider range of social equals, too, it seems, if I'm right in interpreting the "slight lean plus nod" as a truncated bow, given that I've seen kdrama men give this to each other, their bosses, and their parents. In the same situation with genders reversed, a kdrama woman would probably do several repeated full-depth bobbing-bows.
Only in deep major-social-difference bows, in a formal situation (like retail workers greeting the CEO), do the kdrama bows resemble the jdrama deep bow in terms of the bow's steady unhurried (not slow, just not hurried) speed. However, the head still leads, so there's no final chin-drop at the end; the chin is instead nearly at the chest for the entire bow, and seems to regularly expose the nape of the person bowing. (This stood out, because my understanding of Japanese etiquette is that one should not expose the nape of the neck when bowing. Something to do with being decapitated or, uhm, something.)
...And then there's the Taiwanese and Chinese dramas, where no one bows. I'm not used to bowing as a major interaction, so its absence took a bit to register, but bows in TW-dramas are very unusual. At most, where a jdrama or kdrama would bow, a tw-drama will give a brief nod. The nod is sometimes returned with an even briefer nod, but most of the time there's not even that.
The other thing is the posture. The posture of most jdrama actors seems to be relatively upright, with shoulders back. Only in the elderly or the very lowest social standing do I see hunched shoulders like someone who's spent a lot of time bowing. That hunched-shoulder posture is much more common in kdramas, especially for young female actresses, who (I suppose) spend a lot of time doing the rapid-fire bobbing-bow to their social superiors, which I guess would probably be just about everyone. Actually, the hunched-shoulder and curved spine of the kdrama heroine is pretty common, especially in romantic comedies.
In tw-dramas, the spine and posture are like the Japanese: upright, shoulders level, relaxed. There are exceptions (of course), but they show up in tandem with being much older, or working retail long-term. Other than the hunch/huddle of elderly bones, the hunched-shoulder posture of the kdrama -- when you see it in tw-dramas -- seems to indicate an obsequious person, or someone trying to be ingratiating or who lacks self-confidence. Whereas in kdramas, that hunched posture doesn't seem to be tied, contextually, to any comment about the person or any specific characterization.
Actually, come to think of it, other than the rare begging-bow (apology, or requesting a favor of a parent or superior), tw-dramas have shown more on-the-knees supplication. I've seen similar in jdramas, usually when it's potential-spouse with future in-laws. Tw-dramas, the on-the-knees seems to be the equivalent to the jdrama deep-and-held very formal apology-bow. Except that in tw-dramas, having gotten on their knees, the characters at most drop the chin; they don't bow further. Actually, I could clarify that further: the character will nod at the start, as though requesting permission to speak. The chin comes back up while speaking, but may drop again in another nod-bow at the end, in gratitude or acknowledgment for/of the listening person.
The only time I've seen on-the-knees in a kdrama was for a major supplication, and the chin was against the chest for the duration of the kneeling. Quite a contrast with the tw-dramas where on-the-knees is often accompanied by the chin being up, in what might even be characterized as a defiant position were it not for the kneeling.
I've found various essays/articles about bowing for Japanese culture, but none for Korea or Taiwan, and definitely none that compare the greeting/departure nuances between the three. If you watch any of those countries' dramas, or are familiar with any of the cultures directly, am I missing something that might explain the nuances? Do you see the same pattern, or do you see real-life patterns being different, and if so, any idea of why the drama-versions vary from real life and/or are so consistent in their presentation?