for the single ladies

[kaigou]

I came across this post at Pandagon, and it's well worth the read if you're in the dating pool: Red Flags. For those of you who get a little skeevy at the notion of visiting a feminist, libertarian/liberal, big-d Democrat blog, this particular post isn't ultra-politicized. It's just a list of simple things to watch out for when dating, signs of whether a guy can (or will) treat you decently, as a fellow human being.

An excerpt:

...I’ve never seen this red flag fail to pan out---if a guy can’t think of any female musicians or writers he admires, then he’s a giant, honking sexist and you will regret dating him. The deeper he is into being a fan of an art form, the more women in that field he should admire. ...

What’s funny about this red flag and most others is that you don’t have to be on some hunt for them. These red flags are things men pay very little price for waving, generally speaking, so they see no reason not to wave these red flags. I’ve noticed that guys---even ones that claim to be feminist---don’t often go out of their way to hide their contempt for female abilities in this field or that. Very often, a guy’ll be deep into something, and if he feels this way about women, he won’t hesitate to proclaim it, with lots and lots of bullshit attached. Often of the evo psych variety. I’ve heard men deny that women can rap, that women can really play lead guitar, that women can’t write a great novel or even a sci-fi novel. If a man makes blanket statements about the lack of female genius, this will not work out well. The exception to this rule is that if a man seems to believe women can’t play in the NFL, then he’s just observing a fact. However, I’d monitor how gleeful he is about that fact, and whether or not he stretches this observation to suggest women can’t golf or something of that nature.

The entire post is a very handy, and concrete, list. I think the Leo scored damn well on it, but then, we dated after I'd done my time meeting and un-meeting losers, so by then I had a better grasp on the red flags, even if I never articulated it quite as clearly as Amanda does in the linked post.

Come to think of it, the only advice my mother could articulate for who'd be worth my time were that (a) a guy who'd wear pink was a man secure in his sexuality, and (b) if you want to know how a guy will treat you in twenty years, look at how he treats his mother now. Though I admit it took me a few years to realize she didn't just mean whether he's courteous. It's that, but also things like whether he talks to her at all, or does he not tell her on the grounds it's better off if 'she just doesn't know' or worse, 'she wouldn't understand, anyway'. Eventually a man with that attitude will see his partner in the same light. Frustrating, but true.

Regardless, if you're dating now or might be later, the linked post is some damn good advice. Worth reading.

Comments

[whatistigerbalm]

Thanks for the link, and I love your mother's advice too. I can't think of anything I was told by anyone from my family about dating people. The only thing I was ever told was "pamet u glavu" that is, literally, "reason/knowledge to your head" ie. "think about what you're doing".

[kaigou]

Yeah, but it's awfully hard to think with your head when your heart's doing a lot of the talking.

[dancing_serpent]

if a guy can’t think of any female musicians or writers he admires, then he’s a giant, honking sexist and you will regret dating him.

Seems a bit harsh to me. I read this post this morning and now, six hours later, I still can't think of female musicians or writers I admire. That could change once I'm back home and surrounded by my books and CD collection, but right now?

So I guess I wouldn't hold that against him when talking about that on a date.

[kaigou]

In the comments to that post, I noticed several women replying that they dated early-20s guys who could barely mention a female name for a general interest (like music or books), but that the same guys -- as one woman put it, "once he grew up a little and got his head out of his ass" -- by their late 20s could name any of a number of female names they admired in their area of interest.

It's also really hard, sometimes, to think according to a certain prompt -- it'll all go right out of your head, it seems. I have any of a number of architects I admire, but if you were to ask for names, I'd suddenly be all, "well, there's, uhm... the guy in Chicago, what was his name? and who did that house in Atlanta? and, uhm..." Heh. But if you look at the books I've got for studies of architects' works, roughly a third are women. I just tend to draw a blank if put on the spot, but my brain can be like that sometimes. Not being able to remember is rather different from stating baldly, "there are no women, at all, good at my area of interest".

I think it also depends on what you're really into, as well. My ex had a very small music collection, mostly consisting of the Grateful Dead -- but he devoured SFF and had a massive library, and a whole host of his favorite authors were women. He was also way into medieval and military history, and could name a number of women queen-generals whose skills rivaled any man's.

I would most definitely hold it against a man if he says his biggest interest or hobby is X yet can't think of even a single female practitioner that he admires -- and I'd definitely consider it a red flag if his "can't think of one" becomes the basis for saying "therefore none exist". Does the fact that you can't think of any female musicians or authors mean that you don't think they exist at all? I doubt it -- and on top of that, the fact that society doesn't punish men for this kind of sexism is a good reason, IMO, to hold him to a higher standard. He's not being measured against what you (or I) do or believe, as women; he's being measured against what society tells him it's okay for a man to do/believe, and society says it's just fine if he doesn't think girls can do X, as well or even at all.

[dancing_serpent]

It's also really hard, sometimes, to think according to a certain prompt -- it'll all go right out of your head, it seems.
Happens to me quite often, unfortunately. After I posted my comment I tried to think of any male musician/writer I admired and came up blank, too.

Not being able to remember is rather different from stating baldly, "there are no women, at all, good at my area of interest".
Oh yes, most definitely. Only reading that post it didn't seem to be meant separate like that and I have to admit it annoyed me a bit.

[windsorblue]

Man, if I'd had this list twenty years ago, I'd have saved myself a fortune in legal fees.

[treesahquiche]

The hard thing about judging someone based on their relationship with their parents is that many people have very messy relationships with their parents, which sometimes go beyond simple differences in opinions and pride and stubbornness on either or both sides.

[maire]

Ouch. I feel very lucky, suddenly.

I got only two explicit pieces of advice that I can recall on choosing partners from my parents: not to marry anyone who I wasn't completely sure was fantastic in bed, as well as loving and respecting, and not to sleep with anyone who was an asshole when drunk. One piece of advice from each parent there.

But the unspoken assumption in my family that people are made sexy by being intelligent, and that massive gaps in one's understanding are unsexy, means I don't think I've *ever* taken seriously the idea of getting into a relationship with someone who didn't take women just as seriously as intellectual and creative people as men.