quick question for those of you familiar

[kaigou]

...with yaoi-girls and/or (female) m/m fans. Of those you've known/met in the subculture who prefer the m/m and avoid the m/f, have any of them ever explained the reasoning behind their preference? Beyond just the younger version of "well, m/f is icky" or the lazier version of "I just don't like m/f". Anything more in-depth, more honest, more insightful?

Because the only explanations I've ever gotten amount to variations on those two, and that's not much substance when it comes to deconstructing what, exactly, is going on for readers with the preference.

Comments

[ajnabi]

I don't know much/anything about it, so I can't really say -- but I am surprised to hear that one of the responses is that m/f is icky! because it seems like a lot of people find m/m to be the ickier thing. and i've gone through my own homophobic/internalized homophobia stages about this, too, and continue to in some ways (with my naivete, structured prejudice, and generally complicated feelings/reactions to and about sex).

[kaigou]

Yes, I'm sure my expression was something else while trying to process a young, self-identified straight girl telling me she preferred yaoi "because, y'know, M-F is just icky." I think all I managed was a, "no, I don't know." I'm still trying to process it, actually. Heh.

[morkeleb]

The "icky" thing is actually very common in younger yaoi fangirls -- those who haven't yet accepted their sexuality. They use M/M as a proxy to explore sex and relationships in a way that feels less immediate, because, well, they're not boys! So they have this screen of "it's not really about me, so it's safe to explore with" even though in fact it's very obvious it IS about them, seeing how so much yaoi has the uke so completely girlified that if he did have tits to go with his micro-cock everyone would scream misogyny.

But in M/F you have a real girl! who is all too often seen as competition for the desirable male character in which case HATE, or who sends an image the fangirl can't identify with therefore HATE, or to which she can identify too well and in ways she doesn't like! For example the relena hate in GW fandom and the sakura hate in naruto/sasuke fandom -- the girl gets with the hot guy! AND she is ordinary in a very immature-teenager way, and they don't like seeing their faults thrown back in their faces, no matter how realistic the character is, so they hate it on principle so they don't have to face what they could see of themselves in it.

Also, in M/F lemons the girl has... like... a *pussy* -- *like they do*. And they don't really know how it works yet, and it's kinda scary to explore that, and good girls don't want sex anyway so if they/the girl character does she must be a whore! So, using one of the male characters as tongs to handle the sexual vibes without touching them directly. (this also explains the often glaring lack of understanding of male anatomy and sexuality in so many stories, but there they care less since it's not about representing male sexuality well, it's about exploring female sexuality. Being inexact with the male stuff isn't as immediately problematic.)

I'm sure some young fans must find M/F icky because they're lesbians, but when a straight girl finds het icky that's often for a reason like that. Het feels too immediate. (maybe in some cases it's because they can't identify with any of the girls, but ... huh.) I don't know about the older fans; when I got older I turned toward bisexual polyamory so obviously I'm not a good example. XD;

[kaigou]

they don't like seeing their faults thrown back in their faces, no matter how realistic the character is, so they hate it on principle so they don't have to face what they could see of themselves in it.

The flip-side of that is that I know many female readers well past their adolescence who are tired of the first-time story, and all the baggage that comes with virgin-in-bed nonsense. Having been through it, it's old-hat by now, but under that, there's also the sense of, "my god, I hope I wasn't that stupid at that age," and then realizing: yes, yes you were. You were most definitely that stupid, and possibly even more so. The most I can handle of younger-female-lead in any romantic sense is if it's played for comedic effect, because otherwise I'm too busy seeing my younger self laid over it and cringing.

using one of the male characters as tongs to handle the sexual vibes without touching them directly

That is absolutely the most perfect visual ever, babe.