question for the internet brain

[kaigou]

someone on my flist has got to know this one: what's the average amount/type of care if you've got thick, v. coarse, curly-to-kinky hair and want it to look like this or this? (Pam Spalding is the first; Rep. Cynthia McKinney is the second.) I know that thick, v. coarse, and straight is the usual for Asian hair, and I've been told that historically Asian women used an oil (kind of like a pomade, I'm guessing) to condition their hair, sometimes nightly, to keep it healthy. Would something similar be done for thick, coarse, kinky African hair?

Not requiring anyone to give me a dissertation (though I wouldn't complain if you can/would), but even a website that has basic facts about how to get the look(s), how to take care of them, what kind of upkeep is required -- that would be really awesome. There's got to be something out there, I'm sure, but my google-fu seems to be lacking on this. (Mostly because the top 300 hits on any search are all blog posts about Michelle Obama. Not that I'm complaining, but I know her style requires chemical processing, and I'd like to find info on styles that do not require processing.)

Any ideas, advice, sites with reliable info?

Comments

[clarentine]

I don't know that this is what you're looking for, but it's the closest I myself can come: http://cpolk.livejournal.com/112701.html

[kaigou]

Not just helpful for story-research but very helpful for me, too -- damn coarse hair, and finally someone talking about what-to-do if your hair is really coarse, even a bit brittle. Man! I should've written this story asked this question years ago!

[white_aster]

It looks like Spalding has some version of Bradelocz or Sisterlocks. I've done some searching around and have found a bunch of commercialized sites on these. Evidently Bradelocz and Sisterlocks are big trade secrets. Sisterlocks system requires "retightening" at a salon every 3-8 weeks (kind of expensive, or you can shell out for a retightening course to learn how to do it on your own). Bradelocz it seems like you can integrate new growth into the braids yourself with a latch hook (though the inventor kind of mum on EXACTLY how to do this). Both seem to suggest, though, that their styles can be styled just like normal hair (similar shampooing, styling options, etc.)

I can't tell with McKinney, but I think that there aren't any dreadlocks/braids involved in hers. For McKinney, it looks like she just has a perm, maybe? No idea how easy it is to style that exact way, but hair care in general is probably the usual for dry, brittle hair: lots of conditioner, maybe a no-shampoo approach, extra oils to moisturize, etc.

I hope this helps! :D

[kaigou]

I actually spent a good ten minutes going, "perm? that's not a perm!" before remembering that "permanent" means both "permanent relaxant" and "permanent wave". Though does anyone still call it a "permanent wave", these days?

The no-shampoo approach... I had no idea that's so widespread. My hair's coarse, neither thick nor thin, with some wave and a bit of curl only thanks to the coarseness, and I just got tired of shampooing it. (Yes, honestly, I'm just that freaking lazy.) I figured it was just a fluke, or something, that my hair's healthier now. I had no idea there was something to it! Heh.

But making notes, and it looks like haircare wouldn't be so much before-bed as in-shower or right-after-shower (if you have major leave-in conditioner). And putting up and/or wrapping hair before sleeping at night. *makes notes*

Thank you!

[white_aster]

Heh, I've always heard "perm" as in "permanent wave", and no, I've never heard it called that...just...perm! Probably a function of only hearing it being used by folks that are looking to put the curls IN rather than take them out. :P

Yeah, the no-shampoo approach is gaining ground among the natural haircare set. I don't believe a lot of the "SLS IS EVIL AND WILL GIVE YOU CANCER OMG" extremism, but I've found that my hair IS happier when I don't strip out all the oils quite so often. It's sad that it took me this long to figure out that my frizzy, curly hair needs to be WEIGHTED DOWN to behave. ;P

[hokuton_punch]

I found this, which is mostly focused on relaxers - there's a basic hair care bit that should be helpful, though.

[kaigou]

Excellent! thank you!

If your mother used Vaseline® on your hair, stop.

WAH. If your mother used Vaseline ANYWHERE on you, stop. Cripes. Once I knew what that stuff is/does, woah, not going near it ever again. That whole "it clogs/traps moisture in skin" and "doesn't let skin breathe" -- man, years ago, had a perm, and the stylist used Vaseline along forehead & temples, to prevent drips, or protect skin, or something. Instead, the chemicals went *under* the vaseline and basically kept the chemicals right against my skin for the entire hour. I ended up with burns on my forehead and temples. Talk about doing a serious double-take about just what's in that stuff -- the vaseline and the perm. Yow.

[hokuton_punch]

... holy ouch. o.o

[muse-neko.livejournal.com]

Muse_neko here. I'm not sure I understand your question completely. You want to know what sort of upkeep is involved with natural hair? Well, that's the beauty of natural vs. processed hair. Upkeep is fairly minimal, meaning its more akin to how non-African heritage folks take care of their hair. That being said, there are a few particulars depending on the natural route you choose.

Dreds (like mine or Pam's, not the Rastafarian kind): depending on whether your palm-rolling (Pam) or interlocking (me), upkeep can mean having to get your roots retwisted with every wash (palm-rolling) or simply washing and tightening up the interlocks whenever you have a spare moment (me). I love my hair.

That being said...

Afros: The ultimate if you don't mind going short. I've worn my hair in a short fro at a couple of different points in my life. My only regrets were that my hair got so healthy that it grew like crazy and I had to visit the barber shop ever two weeks. In that sense, it was as time consuming as having a relaxer. But in every other way, it's wonderful. Wash and go. There are longer variations (Rep. McKinney), but you have to be very careful to keep the hair from getting so matted that it's unmanageable. However, this is how nature intended for African woman to deal with their hair...by just letting it do its thing.

Braids: Technical a weave category since not all the hair is your own, but unlike with tract weaving, you can have natural hair and wear braids. Unlike dreds where the initial locking is the largest time sink, braiding is an every six or so weeks 6-10 hour affair. The results are fantastic (this was my go to hair style in college), but it's not cheap (unless you have a friend/relative/etc who'll do it for a minimal fee) and it takes FOREVER. Plus, the initial braiding process can pull at the scalp something awful. Very painful. Sleeping those first few nights after getting braids is nearly impossible.

I think I've covered the basic run of natural styles. Any other questions?

[kaigou]

(The only style I've really had any knowledge of were the braids, actually, since my best friend from HS always had relaxed hair, and then went with nearly a buzz-cut for undergrad & grad, and then shows up for our HS reunion with braids down past her elbows. Such an extreme change in length had my jaw on the floor, which got me like an hour's worth of moaning about how the stylist pulled her hair doing it, and it itched at first, and it felt weird at night and it all kept catching on stuff since she wasn't used to the length... and then four years later I went and did the Anglo-version myself, because I'm freaking moronic that way... and the method may have varied but the end result was the same: MY FRIEND WAS RIGHT. Ow, man. I know it's said you have to suffer for the beauty, but I think I'll stick with being ugly, then. Sheesh.)

upkeep can mean having to get your roots retwisted with every wash (palm-rolling)

Didn't I see you doing this in the morning, one of the times we shared a hotel room? Fiddling with the dred like you're twirling it between your fingers? And here I'd figured it was just because you had such an awesome style and were doing it to make me jealous. Ahah! Little did I know!

There are longer variations (Rep. McKinney), but you have to be very careful to keep the hair from getting so matted that it's unmanageable.

...all other tangents aside, that's the nutshell: if we presume no chemical treatments, then we're talking a style similar to McKinneys (depending on cut). Okay! And then, the "keeping the hair healthy" centers on dealing with coarse and delicate hair: making sure the hair doesn't dry out. So, say, an evening routine for hair-care might be an oil treatment of some kind, to keep the hair/scalp conditioned nicely. I mean, every woman (hell, and man) does something to maintain appearances, and I want the two main women in the story to be on par in that respect, as well. I know the old adage of "a hundred strokes with the brush before bed" for anglo-hair, but that told me nothing about what the woman-from-Mozambique might do as her half of the scene's 'business'. Now I have a slightly better clue, I hope. At least less of a non-clue, if nothing else.

thank you! I am indebted!

[muse-neko.livejournal.com]

Heh! Yes, I had palm-rolled dreds back then, so you are correct. Now that I have interlocking dreds, I just fiddle with them in a different way. :3

Ah, now that I see what you're using the info for. If you're talking about daily care routines, the methods also varied with type of hair from absolutely nothing on a more-or-less daily basis except a bit of scalp and hair oiling as needed (dreds and braids) to a more elaborate picking, hair net, oiling routine with longer, natural hair, like the Congresswoman. So, if you're character has McKinney's hair, make sure she wears a scarf to bed to keep the tangling to a minimum. Other than that, I personally find oiling at night to be messy and I'm sure your character would agree. Most maintenance will be done in the morning, not at night.

[multitudeofm]

Umh, heads up.

Asian hair is very different from African hair -- I lived with a Nigerian girl for a year, so I learnt a lot. Coarse and straight and thick are typical attributes of Asian hair, but not usually all on the same head.

Indians and other Asians from the subcontinent tend to have coarse hair, and usually, with a bit of wave to it.

Straight and thick tends to be East Asian, from China, Japan and Korea etc. Sometimes you get someone with relatively coarse hair, but most of the time it's quite fine. Frankly, I'd liken it to European/Caucasian hair, but with no curl and a lot less frizz.

Oil, as far as I know, is a very Indian thing, usually coconut. That said, I believe that Korean women used to use a particular oil for the same purpose -- I want to say it's sandalwood but I'm also pretty sure it's not. If Chinese women did this, I have no idea what they used -- I use coconut and sometimes almond myself, though I've heard that you can use shea or cocoa butter for this, as well as olive.

You use it in two ways. One, you properly oil it so much that you have to sleep with a towel on your pillow or just leave it in whilst you do housework for a few hours. Or two, you use it like a leave-in conditioner, applying just enough to leave an softening layer of oil on your hair without making it look oily -- I never learnt the knack of this one.

Umh, I hope you don't mind the 'lecture.'

[kaigou]

(sorry for so belated)

I almost always go for stylists who do at least two kinds of hair (anglo, asian, african), if not all three -- I find they'll have more versatility and flexibility in general. That's how I learned that the biggest actual difference between anglo and asian is... the direction of the hair. Highly unscientific version here, but IIRC the explanation was, roughly, that caucasian/anglo hair grows in whorls, coming out of the head at a severe angle, sometimes with a twist, which is where you get cowlicks.

Asian hair comes out of the head at 90' angle, and thus some styles that look great on Asian hair will never work on my hair, because my hair just doesn't grow in the right direction to get the same results from that kind of cut.

On the other hand, this a) explained why so many animanga characters have bangs that look like some (slightly smaller) variation of Sephiroth's hair... and, uhm, for that matter, why CP's hair is, well, like Sephiroth's. Yes, bangs and all -- that would be thanks to having a Filipino grandfather, even if CP is 6', blond hair, and blue eyes (all the Germans on the other side of the family). But now at least I know why his hair does that!

Or two, you use it like a leave-in conditioner, applying just enough to leave an softening layer of oil on your hair without making it look oily

That's how both of my Chinese friends did their hair -- basically some kind of leave-in pomade or oil. One friend said she used the same as her mother had used, until she came to the states and couldn't get it anymore. Seems like no matter who you are or where you come from, when you move someplace new, there are two things you'll miss the most and/or have the hardest time finding a good replacement: your family doctor, and your stylist. Hell, sometimes the first is the easy one, but the second, never!

[multitudeofm]

If we don't use leave-in stuff, it generally tends to frizz.

I'm in the UK: family doctor = impossible and hair stylist as easy as walking down the road.

LOL.

[ladyjax]

Not all African hair is thick, coarse and kinky. Just an FYI.

You might find some ideas here:

African Wonders
Treasured Locks
Nappturality

(which you can find via Google if you look up Black women and natural hair).

As far as Pam's hair goes, the style of her locks could be from how she started them - did she start from virgin hair or from a perm? her hair pattern and the texture of her hair. Locks can be hard to start because not all Black women have the same texture of hair (not necessarily very coarse). They don't look like Sisterlocks but definitely palm rolled. She might be using a product like Sister Kayla's Natty Locks or she could have started them with braids as a base, straight aloe vera gel (like I did mine way back in the day) or any number of ways.

Cynthia McKinney could be rocking a texturizer, which loosens the curl structure or it could be blown out and supplemented with a product like Mixed Chicks, or something from Miss Jessie's

There are different oils and pomades that many different Black women use up in their hair. Some use none at all. But scalp care is important - that will make or break any hairstyle.

[kaigou]

I think what I was missing when I first googled was including the word 'natural' -- I guess going on the idea that if it grows out of your head, it's natural (as opposed to a wig, or when you braid in long pieces of real or synth hair, which was what my HS friend did). Not used to 'natural' meaning 'not permed', but now I know! ...and amazing, my google-fu suddenly starts producing results. Heh.

(sometimes googling is like being a kid again: how do you look up the spelling of a word you don't know how to spell? or in this case, how do you google for terms when you don't know the right terms?)

But scalp care is important - that will make or break any hairstyle.

That seems to be the major underlying factor, and the detail that would get the most attention in the character's -- oh, what an old-fashioned word, but what else to call it? -- toilette. And since the story isn't modern but is set in a loose analogue of the past, I figured obviously modern methods might be too anachronistic, but the Sister Kayla's Natty Locks sounds like something that'd be believable as non-modern (that is, doesn't require stuff like petrolatum, advanced chemistry degree, etc). That, and anything that's a mix of shea butter, lanolin and lavender probably smells heavenly and is way good for scalp and hair.

Plus, informative links! Awesome! thank you!

[ladyjax]

Shea butter, though a very good idea, can be heavy for some people. You might be better off with a hair oil.

Before there were relaxers, there was the hot comb, so it depends on how loose an analogue of the past you're considering.

[kaigou]

Well, there is the question of trade, though the tree that produces shea butter does grow in a pretty wide swath across the northwestern middle part of Africa. And from what I can tell of the historical trade routes, it seems like it wouldn't be too far-fetched to have trade between, say, Nigeria and Tanzania -- except I'm still piecing together whether this would've been possible in the early 1920s, or if trade would've been barred/interrupted by protectorates of the Mozambique Company ilk. Elsewhere those tended to control all trade in/out, also I'm not sure whether the Germans or Brits did similar while they held Tanzania... Other questions to answer, but in general, you've given me a good place to start digging deeper. Thanks!

Which I'll get back to, right after I'm done being sidetracked with fascination about the (shea butter) tree itself, because a fire-resistant tree sounds like the most amazing evolutionary adaptation. Why, yes, I am a green-thing kind of geek.

[delux-vivens.livejournal.com]

I think what I was missing when I first googled was including the word 'natural' -- I guess going on the idea that if it grows out of your head, it's natural (as opposed to a wig, or when you braid in long pieces of real or synth hair, which was what my HS friend did).

Hair that is not chemically processed is still treated differently from hair that is, even if something else is braided into it.

Also, while shea butter is wildly popular now, it pretty much didnt exist in Black hair care in America until approximately 20 years ago. West African women popularized it among African Americans. There's a certian amount of historical perspective that seems to not be understood by many outsiders performing research on black hair.

I would also suggest that sites like nappturality are very much intended for people of african descent and their members do not lend themselves kindly to providing learning experiences or educational material.

[kaigou]

it pretty much didnt exist in Black hair care in America until approximately 20 years ago

Good thing the story's not set in the US, then. (Heh.)

There's a certian amount of historical perspective that seems to not be understood by many outsiders performing research on black hair.

Which would kinda be the point of asking questions. That, and I really like this character. I don't want her looking like an idiot because I wrote her inaccurately, so I guess I just consider it my responsibility to ask for help when there's a detail I think I'm missing or might have wrong.

I would also suggest that sites like nappturality are very much intended for people of african descent and their members do not lend themselves kindly to providing learning experiences or educational material.

I think the only answer I can manage to that is, 'well, duh.'

Okay, yes, slightly facetious, but cripes. It's one thing to ask my flist -- who I presume are here because they want to be -- for help when my research falls short. But basically tromping into someone's home/website uninvited and asking personal questions without so much as a hello, man, that's just rude. I don't like it when it's done to me, so I figure no doing it to others because they probably dislike it as much as I do, eh.