the logic...

[kaigou]

I just discovered that on a certain ranty little LJ comm, several folks drew a curious conclusion. Being a community full of anonymice, people can post as they please (and damn if it don't get confusing - who are you talking to? they're all anonymous!). So someone rec'd me, and used the phrase 'rinse and repeat'. Apparently, because I've used this phrase myself, the conclusion was drawn that I was praising myself as a sockpuppet.

*pauses to consider that for a moment*

Yes! I must have coined the phrase, and therefore all its royalties for use come back to me! Pay up, all you shampoo companies. You OWE me.

*runs off to trademark office*

In the same thread, I was utterly delighted (if bemused) to read this, too:

She achieved her notoriety by sucking up to and praising almost every writer in the fandom. I've seen the personal emails to prove it. What makes her popular is not her fantastic writing style but her gift of gab. She knows how to flatter and stroke egos. We all know the gundam Wing fandom is full of over blown egos. Her being embraced is merely further testament to that.

I'm starting to think that giving concrit - where you compliment a person's work, while trying to diplomatically point out where things could be improved - must be a rare art. Or maybe it is for the anonymous person who wrote that. Or maybe the person isn't a writer and doesn't realize how painful it is for some writers to post their stuff, and how cruel it would be to not have something nice to say in with any constructive critcism. Maybe I'm too Southern, having this silly notion that if I can't say something nice when critting, why say anything at all? I just never thought I'd be put down for doing something that I consider nothing less than principled, and an expression of treating others how I'd want to be treated - with "this is what I liked" mixed in with "this is what (I think) needs work". I mean, really. A good concrit should leave you with suggestions for how to get better (which hopefully prompts your own ideas), and a bit of a warm fuzzy feeling that someone liked your story.

(And I do not agree that the statement, "well, I took the time to review" should be considered enough, in and of itself, to compliment a writer. People will take the time to write some really nasty stuff, and that's not a compliment in the least. Well, unless you're one of those people who says, "hey! the story did provoke a response in someone, so that's good, right?" Well...I guess.)

Although it's always funny to read people's criticisms of my stories and think, "uh, I won't post on a dead thread, but actually, I agree with you."

*snerk*

Comments

[arithion.livejournal.com]

you coined rinse and repeat! Fuck. Chapter six of SWB was called rinse and repeat

grrrrr

or at least, I had those words in it, a lot. /snicker

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Pay up, buddy!

or you could just send me fansubs...

[elanivalae.livejournal.com]

Head, meet desk. >_<

I swear, I have less faith in the constancy of gravity than I have in the stupidity of most people floating around in the ooze of Fanfiction Land. Criticism is at least as much of an art form as is writing, in my opinion. Often it's more difficult. -_-

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

yaaha, one of my favorite quotes:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity;
and I'm not sure about the universe."

--- Albert Einstein

[elanivalae.livejournal.com]

That's one of my favorites, too xD

[i-paint-the-sky.livejournal.com]

I wish I had coined "rinse and repeat" =P

Anyway, I certainly am one fan who wasn't won over by praise. I'd never heard of you until neekabe recced "The Worst Thing", when it still was "The Worst Thing". I don't think the GW fandom is full of overblown egos either...certainly not the parts I like to wander around in. And those parts also are godly enough to merit egos anyway.

At least you are getting revenge flamed by people who don't understand the concept of "parody".

[i-paint-the-sky.livejournal.com]

Though I have to admit, I have a morbid fascination to go look at this comm.

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Yeah, if you had, you could be RICH LIKE ME!

Uh, yeeeeeeah.. So NOT. Unfortunately. But I'm working on it.

Truth is, I think the idea that a fan can be "won over by praise from the author" - well, taken as a whole, a fandom may seem like a rather twit-like organism, but each individual reader? No. Not even close, if ever. There's a hidden insult in there, that fandom-readers (including the anonymous posters complaining) are so bubble-headed that all it takes is one writer saying nice things and they're a Minion o' Doom, forevah. (It's also just as possible that the poster was pissed that s/he didn't get a nice letter and thus thinks it's 'elitest' that I was nice to one person and not another.)

Most people have their declared preferences, and no amount of publicizing or ego stroking will make a difference. The only thing that will change (hopefully) is their likelihood of flaming me - in theory, if I treated them with respect, they'll do the same to me.

Err, that's the hope.

[branchandroot]

Concrit is a rare art. Horribly rare, really. People honestly think "I've never read your writing because I hate the pairs you write, but this was really good" should be recieved with a glow of gratitude. Or, better yet, that "Well, you have a good idea but Character X wouldn't act like that" constitutes pleasant and useful crititique.

Every now and then I wonder if I'm being paranoid about keeping a low profile, if it would really be that bad to be more active in the comms, and then I come across something like this and think yes, yes it would be. *shakes head*

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

I've never read your writing because I hate the pairs you write, but this was really good

Uh...actually I say that every time a friend posts a chapter of her story with a pairing I truly, utterly loathe. She knows it, I know it, and it's become a bit of a joke, because I do like the story.

But...yeah. I was contemplating writing something semi-satiric about 'Tips to Avoid Becoming a BNF' or some such. I never go through comms, really, but stumbling over a link and following it...one of these days, I'll learn to stop doing that. On the other hand, some of the comments about Tetractys struck a note, and I have no problem saying: the critic has a point. That is a flaw with that story. Hrm, wonder how I can fix that? (And damn it, when will I have the time!?)

Heh. Even when I want a low profile, my name still comes up. Ah, well. Whatever! ;D

[branchandroot]

*grins* You can be evil to friends in a way you just can't to strangers. Well, not without making 'stranger' into 'enemy', anyway.

and I have no problem saying: the critic has a point. That is a flaw with that story. Hrm, wonder how I can fix that? (And damn it, when will I have the time!?)

Word. It's nice when someone takes time to think, as well as read, and points out where more development would help. It's just when the comment smacks of entitlement-syndrome that I get all bristly.

You know, I think Tip One on that list would have to be "Must not have participated in GW in any noticeable way." Otherwise, you're just doomed. ^_-

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

t's nice when someone takes time to think, as well as read, and points out where more development would help.

I wish! Naw, these comments were more like: "It's too long, and takes forever to get to the point." I'm not touching Drums - taking that down would strip the plot or make it info-dump heavy. But Tetractys does meander, so the criticism has validity, when I really stop and consider it.

That tip of "must not have participated" should also extend to HP and LotR then, which in their movie and book fandoms are...well, they make everyone else look positively comatose.

[aishuu.livejournal.com]

i approached you first, so does that make me your peon? i think i told you i didn't like something, actually...

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Hrm, it just might. Heh. And you couldn't have been that harsh, or I would've shied (shyed?) away from continuing interaction. When crit doesn't have a personal agenda attached to it (I want to knock you down! I want you to feel like dirt!) then there's always a chance it has some valid points. It's just a matter of being hardheaded enough to plow through the points to find the ones that can be applied.

And I still think you're crazy for liking Beatrice.

[tiercel]

Hey! I never got my letter of praise! Oh, wait, I hang around your journal because I like your writing. What a weirdo I must be!

Maybe I'm too Southern, having this silly notion that if I can't say something nice when critting, why say anything at all?

I must suffer from the same affliction, because I never respond to fics that I don't like at all. (There's not enough hours in the day for that anyway.)

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

Yeah, you're totally weird, but I could've told you that. Freak.

Sometimes I get this whole 'thing' and will crit a writer's chapter from top to bottom, but I try to put in as many good things as concrit. If I can't find as much that pleases me about the story - the style, the description, the characterization, the plot - as I can find wrong, then it's not a good idea to crit. At least, not without the huge risk of the person taking it very personally, and I would rather let a person muddle on their own, than slam them down so hard they just quit writing altogether.

I know there's this whole thing about 'if a crit gets you so down you quit writing, you weren't meant to do it anyway' but that's really bullshit. IMO. Sometimes - as a regular thing, or for some of us, just a bad day - a crit hits you too hard and you can only recoil in shock and pain. And the less confident among us will flee, and I can't blame them for needing time to regroup. Taking crit is as hard as giving it, and not everyone is a stubborn, hardheaded, thickskinned bastard like me.

Hey. Ever use the phrase 'rinse and repeat'? Fess up, and hand over the CASH, buddy!

;P~~

[tiercel]

Yeah, you're totally weird, but I could've told you that. Freak.

Aw, shucks. #^_^# That's the nicest thing anyone's said about me in years.

Most of what I read is posted on websites, so I don't feel comfortable emailing the authors out of the blue with anything other than praise, and I rarely find anything that inspires me to do that. I'll post commentary in people's livejournals sometimes, but most of the time I just don't have anything constructive to say anyway.

I'll confess to using "Lather, rinse, repeat," but I stole that from Yakko, Wakko, and Dot. No money for you! Bwa ha!

[mikkeneko.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

Mm, yeah. You started posting on GWA, and I read your stuff, but you didn't comment on the stuff I posted in Showcase -- mostly because I wasn't writing much at that time -- so it certainly can't have been your glowing praise that decided me you were a good author. ;)

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

No, you just like me because I admitted in public that you're the only one who's ever made me cry.

Nyah.

(Either that or it was the copious amounts of cash I sent you, but shhhhh.)

[atpolittlebit.livejournal.com]

I keep having giggle fits at trying to reconcile you with "sucking up" and "flatter and stroke egos."

*sporfle*

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

*struts*

Yeah, baby.

[rurounitriv.livejournal.com]

She achieved her notoriety by sucking up to and praising almost every writer in the fandom.

I thought you said they were talking about you, not me... ;)

Seriously, though, the idea of you sucking up is about as likely as... as Howard dressing up in a tutu and becoming a professional ballerina! And I certainly didn't like your stuff because you were saying nice stuff about my work, because when you first showed up on GWA, I wasn't writing, so there wasn't anything for you to comment on.

And yes, concrit is very hard to write, and a smart reviewer - one that actually wants the review to be read instead of just deleted so that the author can go off and have a good cry (or send a nasty flame in response, depending on the author) - will point out the good as well as the bad. Not only is it only fair (hey, there might be flaws, but there's good points too) but it makes it more likely that the author will actually listen to what you're trying to say. If you've got the knack for doing that, go for it - it'll improve the quality of the fics in the fandom.

Me, I generally get lazy and don't mention the bad (or just "could be better") stuff unless I'm pretty sure that the author won't get upset about the crit part and decide that the whole thing is just a thinly-veiled flame. :P

Anonymouse may think that GW fandom is full of overblown egos, but the folks on GWA have nothing on a Mary-Suethor whose creation has just been criticized! LOL

[solitude1056.livejournal.com]

the author won't get upset about the crit part and decide that the whole thing is just a thinly-veiled flame.

whereas I'm so friggin' boneheaded I've actually been flamed - and not in the general 'you suck' but the 'this sucks, and this, and this' and it sure seemed like a crit, so, hey, I took it as a crit. Wasn't until another reviewer saw it that they pointed out it was just a thinly-veiled flame. Oh. Hunh. I didn't even feel toasty, just perplexed because I didn't think the piece was that bad!

Yes. I am a dork sometimes. But a boneheaded dork.

[rurounitriv.livejournal.com]

LOL Well, to be honest, if they were giving specific things that didn't work for them... I might have made the same assumption. Sometimes there's a fine line between a flame and a crit.

I generally don't assume it's a flame unless there's personal insults and/or comments on how the whole story is stupid and poorly-written and I should just quit writing. I'm just arrogant enough to know that I actually do know something about writing - maybe I'm not at a professional level, but skill-wise I know I'm better than at least 75% of the fanauthors I've read.

Hrm. You know, come to think of it, I don't think I've ever had a serious flame on a fic... guess it's a good thing that I don't post my stuff all over the place. Low profile = small target. Or maybe I have been flamed and just didn't notice. *grin*