protection, possession
19 Sep 2008 01:16 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaigouQuestion for everyone, about possession/protection in stories. Your impressions don't have to revolve around or be based solely on romantic sub/plots (RSP for easier typing), but in general, though it's most often overused in RSP.
In case I need to mention it again, interpersonal dynamics are absolute fascination to me, especially when you add in any sort of imbalance of power. Given that, you may get already the gist of what I mean when I bring up characters being possessive or protective: it's most often the more powerful character, the one with little to obviously gain, who feels anywhere from unexpectedly protective (or the shadow-side version, possessive) of another character -- to the RSP style in which it's an almost obsessive and immediate protective/possessive sense.
I can't recall now whether I discussed it here, though CP and I discussed the topic: if, at some point, in everyday real relationships, there's been an overwhelming (or at least just very strong) sense of needing/wanting to 'protect' a loved one. The premise I gave was similar to a hundred RSP situations, where Alpha-half looks over to see lover (or more often, simply potential lover) and wants to leap to the lover's defense. Or, at the extreme, to actually remove the destined/intended lover from the scene altogether to isolate/remove him/her from the danger -- which I must also add isn't always even that articulated, so much as a general flash of intense jealousy.
When I read such scenes, I can't help but see it not just from the POV-character's overweening anxiety/jealousy (which may or may not be understandable given the author's set up), but I also see it from the object's POV, and I always find myself thinking: hey, jerkwad, I'm quite capable. Don't treat me like I'm either so fragile I'll break at a wrong word, or so freaking stupid I don't realize I'm fragile. Cripes.
Because there's actually two versions of this Spontaneous Obsessive-Possessive Attack -- one being the classic Alpha version where the powerful/alpha character just steamrollers on over and yanks the beta/lower away, all sanity and reason apparently just gone in a sudden show of primal hair-pulling and chest-beating. Yes, that can be a make-or-break point for a story, and it does take some authorly skill to get me past a knee-jerk "hey, asshole!" reaction. (For instance, I'm a great deal more forgiving if the obsessive-possessive actions are coming from an older sibling, even though on the surface it's essentially the same behavior.)
The second version is what I guess is the modern adaptation of trying to mesh the classic sstrong/weak opposition in romance (read: romanticized) relationships, with the modern/western awareness or preference that a good relationship can be composed of equals. This isn't gender-based, though, because I've read it in gay fiction written by men for men, and lesbian fiction written by women for women, and in het fiction written by both genders, and the genders of the participants cover all possible permutations: it's when Alpha sees Beta, feels flash of protectiveness, and has to remind him/herself, consciously, that Beta is capable and able to self-defend.
Which was the point I made to CP, that somehow I find this immensely offensive, when I think of the Beta's POV even as I read through the eyes of the Alpha. How could you forget that the beta is perfectly competent? To have to consciously reassure yourself that yes, in fact, the beta can handle the situation, regardless of whether any clear danger is actually present?
When I say it's not gender-based, I mean that I've also read the same in, say, a situation where a socially skilled or powerful woman is watching her lower-class or less-social potential/actual lover hobnob. It's often expressed as a worry, and a need to intervene, but if you ask me it amounts to the same kind of thing.
Maybe I just have trouble believing in the strength of an interrelational dynamic when on some level the author seems to be determined to reinforce the imbalance. I don't know. Anyone else?
In case I need to mention it again, interpersonal dynamics are absolute fascination to me, especially when you add in any sort of imbalance of power. Given that, you may get already the gist of what I mean when I bring up characters being possessive or protective: it's most often the more powerful character, the one with little to obviously gain, who feels anywhere from unexpectedly protective (or the shadow-side version, possessive) of another character -- to the RSP style in which it's an almost obsessive and immediate protective/possessive sense.
I can't recall now whether I discussed it here, though CP and I discussed the topic: if, at some point, in everyday real relationships, there's been an overwhelming (or at least just very strong) sense of needing/wanting to 'protect' a loved one. The premise I gave was similar to a hundred RSP situations, where Alpha-half looks over to see lover (or more often, simply potential lover) and wants to leap to the lover's defense. Or, at the extreme, to actually remove the destined/intended lover from the scene altogether to isolate/remove him/her from the danger -- which I must also add isn't always even that articulated, so much as a general flash of intense jealousy.
When I read such scenes, I can't help but see it not just from the POV-character's overweening anxiety/jealousy (which may or may not be understandable given the author's set up), but I also see it from the object's POV, and I always find myself thinking: hey, jerkwad, I'm quite capable. Don't treat me like I'm either so fragile I'll break at a wrong word, or so freaking stupid I don't realize I'm fragile. Cripes.
Because there's actually two versions of this Spontaneous Obsessive-Possessive Attack -- one being the classic Alpha version where the powerful/alpha character just steamrollers on over and yanks the beta/lower away, all sanity and reason apparently just gone in a sudden show of primal hair-pulling and chest-beating. Yes, that can be a make-or-break point for a story, and it does take some authorly skill to get me past a knee-jerk "hey, asshole!" reaction. (For instance, I'm a great deal more forgiving if the obsessive-possessive actions are coming from an older sibling, even though on the surface it's essentially the same behavior.)
The second version is what I guess is the modern adaptation of trying to mesh the classic sstrong/weak opposition in romance (read: romanticized) relationships, with the modern/western awareness or preference that a good relationship can be composed of equals. This isn't gender-based, though, because I've read it in gay fiction written by men for men, and lesbian fiction written by women for women, and in het fiction written by both genders, and the genders of the participants cover all possible permutations: it's when Alpha sees Beta, feels flash of protectiveness, and has to remind him/herself, consciously, that Beta is capable and able to self-defend.
Which was the point I made to CP, that somehow I find this immensely offensive, when I think of the Beta's POV even as I read through the eyes of the Alpha. How could you forget that the beta is perfectly competent? To have to consciously reassure yourself that yes, in fact, the beta can handle the situation, regardless of whether any clear danger is actually present?
When I say it's not gender-based, I mean that I've also read the same in, say, a situation where a socially skilled or powerful woman is watching her lower-class or less-social potential/actual lover hobnob. It's often expressed as a worry, and a need to intervene, but if you ask me it amounts to the same kind of thing.
Maybe I just have trouble believing in the strength of an interrelational dynamic when on some level the author seems to be determined to reinforce the imbalance. I don't know. Anyone else?
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Date: 20 Sep 2008 04:48 pm (UTC)Which is another dynamic altogether, having watched a friend think she was really telling that guy what-for and that he laid off because she said so -- only to turn around and discover her 6'5" boyfriend had been looming angrily behind her. She wasn't sure whether to be pleased (being backed up) or be furious (that she needed backup) or to be -- well, from what I gathered (and could empathize with), it was a strange mix of let-down that it wasn't entirely her own power that told the creep off, and a little bit of embarrassed pleasure that she'd had backup.
That's a scenario I've never entirely managed to tease out all the implications of, but there's a lot going on in there: gender issues, the question of independence, the need for control, self-determination, lots of things I can't quite recall the words for this early.
I guess it's like untangling the dynamics of, oddly, a dominant-submissive interaction: who is really driving this bus, and how do you react after that flash of "yeah! did it myself!" only to find out that it was either two-person deal or that possibly you "did it yourself" only by the grace of someone else's assistance?
Odd, how we brains think sometimes. hrmmm...