where do you start?

[kaigou]

The drawback of a multi-POV story, it seems, is that you could conceivably consider the story to be three stories in one, since each character is going to have his/her own take on the big picture. Now that I've started to (finally) settle down on each character's share of the story -- and his/her perspective and role in the catastrophes -- I'm left puzzling out one basic but crucial detail.

Who gets the first shot?

In a multi-POV story, how do you determine who starts the story? Have you successfully written (or read successfully-written) stories in which a lesser character jump-starts things before it moves to a major character? Or do your best recollections of story-starts focus on those stories in which the character who ends up with the greatest amount of focus is also the one to begin (and possibly end) the story?

...

She considered letting the tea-tray eat the annoying man, since she hadn't a single charm that might work on badge-carrying Americans, and it was too early in the day to offer sake. Drowning guests in alcohol held no propriety until at least mid-afternoon.

Comments

[aishuu.livejournal.com]

It can be done either way - I've seen (and written, I hope!) examples that work. Often times a minor character can help ease someone into the narrative, offering a slightly outside perspective on the situation. However, some people prefer to introduce the protagonist first - it really depends on what you aim to accomplish with your opening.

...and that was probably completely unhelpful, I know.

[miyabiarashi.livejournal.com]

I'm currently thinking up how I want to start my webcomic idea/script/what-have-you. I'd originally thought of starting it from my main protagonist's point of view, but considering there's a lot of background, I may just switch it to another major character, because she's directly involved (as a princess and a war prize/peace offering). The main protagonist is pretty awesome too, but considering she lives in a faraway village, she's probably not the best to expound on background events. and to make matters more complicated, the other two major characters probably won't show up until much later...

[fandrogyny.livejournal.com]

You write from the perspective of the person who displays the greatest amount of agency and action. A very articulate, observant character would be great, but slow. So the person who does the most, and does it well, should open the book. This person should be strong enough to start the story, to turn the key in the ignition and get things moving. Otherwise, no tension (and no sale).

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

You write from the perspective of the person who displays the greatest amount of agency and action.

That's an excellent way to put it!

One question: you mean in terms of agency at that specific point in the story, am I right? (Just making sure I've got what you mean.)

[fandrogyny.livejournal.com]

That specific point. By that first chapter, something has to be accomplished. Something has to have changed, and your character has to have changed it.

[mallory-blog.livejournal.com]

It doesn't make a difference - just pick one and start - after about 6 chapters you will have an epiphany and no matter which you pick - you will change it...

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

If I may...

You can have multiple points of view, but you as the writer need to understand who the story belongs to. It is very simple, the story belongs to the character who changes the most. With that in mind, structure becomes easier.

Also, I'd have you think about the story curve (http://www.themidnighthour.net/what-makes-a-story/). When you start out, you need to start out with the situation in equilibrium, or with the event that whacks it out of equilibrium. Whichever POV will do that best can go first. It's okay to start with a less-important character whose view will somehow complement the protagonist's--though that introduces its own problems to solve, just as starting with the main protag and moving to complementary POVs has its own set of problems. It's in solving those that the major craft lies.

And just as a side note, perhaps the tea tray SHOULD eat uppity badge-carrying Americans. In a Lovecraft tale, they almost certainly would. *grin*

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of the secondary character 'easing' a reader into the narrative, to be honest. So you weren't entirely unhelpful, if that's any reassurance. ;-)

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there's the "start as close to the end as possible" advice, but when there's still backstory before you can weave the characters together... yipes.

Why can't I just write a simple one-POV story?

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

LOL, yes, this is true in terms of draft. I'm talking about the final though: three interlocking stories, all of which begin with the character individually... all other things being equal, I'm left wondering how other folks make the 'final' decision on who gets the kickoff.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Of course you may!

(I think your English teacher and my English teacher were cribbing notes, because I distinctly recall that diagram & lecture myself. Hoo, boy.)

Sometimes I wonder if telling stories, for me, isn't a bit like my idea of carpentry. I know exactly where I want to end up, but it's always a lot higher level than where I'm at, skillwise, and I end up learning most of it along the way (not to mention having to redo it several times as I figure out that, yeah, there IS a reason the experts say, do it this way, and YES that does mean some of my cabinetry's on its second or third go-round but at least this time the drawer slides are level!).

There don't seem to be a lot of multi-POV stories in thrillers or urban fantasy -- that is, there's usually a primary character who carries the story instead of it being a collective/group story (if that makes sense). So I'm puzzled as to where to find a template/working example of multi-POV stories where all three begin with an equilibrium, move into conflict, and resolve as one story. The difficulty remains, for me, how to deal with that opening pacing: you get one story off and running, and to introduce the next one, it means taking things back to a null-state and then back up and running. I can only imagine readers might feel a bit like a yo-yo after the second time.

The best examples I can think of are stories like Joy Luck Club, or other multi-protagonist stories (and that's the level of complexity and concurrent character development that I really enjoy)... except that a lot of the multi-protagonist stories also seem to be heavy-duty, uh, quasi-literary, uh... women's fiction. (I'm sure you know the kind I mean; one wrong step and you're in sapland.)

Last time I ended up flipping a coin three times to pick where I'd start. I don't think that worked so well. Heh.

[pxcampbell.livejournal.com]

One of the most important things to convey in the opening few pages of a novel is -- what is this story about.

It's often easiest to begin, then with the POV of the character whose story it is.

If it belongs to all three, then I think the action and chronology dictate who goes first.

My novel is a three-character story, as well. I started chronologically with the "one way door" or equilibrium-upsetting event. Then I made sure that each of the three characters got a POV chapter within the first five chapters.

I choose POV for scenes depending on what I want the reader to know (or not know).

[dangrgirl.livejournal.com]

I'm working on a four-person POV novel and looking back I see that, as was suggested here, I did start with the character who has the most to lose and whose character arc is the most dramatic.

I do think that, at least initially, a reader is going to identify most with the character whose POV they encounter first. Also, if a particular character is going to kick the bucket at some point, then that character should not get the lion's share of the pages because there's the assumption in some genres that POV characters don't typically die. Subverting that assumption could make for some good drama, and probably happens more in literary as opposed to genre fiction, but it's a difficult line to walk. If a character gets the most "screen time" and then dies, a reader may feel cheated.

I say that because the character I start with in this particular story does die (sort of, it's more of an apotheosis), but I'd classify her as a secondary protagonist, not the main protagonist. She continues on into the next book where she is the main protagonist and has the majority of pages in her POV (err, or will, when I write it).

[aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com]

Try omniscient, then you can have all three at the same time.

I'm kidding because it seems your characters aren't together in the beginning, but writing omni gives the whole when, where and with whom to start another layer of problems. Wrting some chapters in omni and others in third (given to a number of characters) doesn't make things easier. I'm going to kill a few agents with that, but it's the only damn way I can write a novel.

Let's see - increasing level of complicated:
The Charioteer: Ciaran is the MC and gets the POV in the first chapter.
Endangered Frontiers: POV of minor character which then shifts to one of the two MCs. Is probably going to tie in with the end.
Caledonia Defiant: MC seen from the POV of his best friend. Ties in with the end.
Eagle of the Sea: POV goes to important secondary character in the beginning, then shifts to omni. No MC in the first chapter.
Kings and Rebels: Three merging plotlines overall; I'm still not sure whether Alastair or Roderic will get the first chapter, but both are written in omni (which would bring either Alastair's brother, or Roderic, Berenger and Kjartan - the third MC - into the spotlight).
A Land Unconquered: omnisicient, presenting the MCs Arminius and Germanicus, the fictive MCs Horatius Veranius and Irminric, plus the antags Cornelius Lentulus and Rekahari. POV goes to Germanicus, Veranius and Irminric. Will tie in with the end, though.
-- Considering the fact that the most complicated of my beginnings also is the first book in a trilogy doesn't bode well for selling chances. I bet most agents would have less problems with the third, Caledonia Defiant.

It's not much of an advice, but I'd say play around and looks what clicks. From a rational standpoint I should not begin A Land Unconquered the way I do, but it fell into place for me.

[lilithsaintcrow.livejournal.com]

Hee. Maybe our English teachers were in mind-meld.

It is GOOD to want to do things on a higher skill-level. You learn ever so much just fromthe attempt, and a lot of times the Muse covers up lack of skill if you're working truly as hard as you can. If one isn't attempting something impossible, one might as well be in the grave.

Let's see...thrillers or urban fantasy with multi-POVs...there's Terri Windling et al's Borderland, Stephen King's It and The Stand, where multi-POVs are interwoven with epistolary stuff, there's Herbert's The Fog and Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House. Barbara Kingsolver did it with The Poisonwood Bible, which I view as part of the horror genre by virtue of its tension, and part of lit fic by its subject and quality. There's also Peter Beagle's The Innkeeper's Song, possibly the finest piece of multiple POVs I've ever read--and they're all FIRST PERSON, the talented basstud.

See, it's a tradeoff. More than one POV bleeds off narrative drive and lowers the reader's identification with one character that is so necessary for suspense (sometimes). But it balances that with providing a bigger canvas and a more ambitious story. Single POVs provide more cohesive narrative drive and tempt the reader into a readier identification with protagonist, but they can be a little claustrophobic and you are locked into what the protag can see, trying to pull off the hat trick of showing things to the reader through the lens of the single POV.

So it's a trade-off, like so much in writing. Six of one, half a dozen of the other, which tool you use depends on the story.

I'm rambling.

[mallory-blog.livejournal.com]

One will simply have the best hook - it will be in the immediacy of story and the compelling nature of their situation. Also, one is likely to be staged as more sympathetic or important than the others. It is like favoritism with children, you aren't supposed to love one more - but you will anyway.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Hold on, first let me stop staring at your icon while thinking, "I know that movie, I know that movie, it's right on the tip of my tongue, it's, it's..." AAAUGH WHAT IS THE MOVIE. That's going to drive me crazy[er]!!

First five chapters, though. I know it's hardly set in stone, but it's still good to hear someone's general rule of thumb. ;)

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

I know omni's supposed to be an option, but I can't seem to write it -- I head-hop very badly (and it is a truly difficult skill) -- but just as importantly, I detest reading it. The only exception might be in creative nonfiction, such as biographies, where "time and distance" allows some hints at omni. Otherwise I'm happiest buried as deep as possible in one POV when reading, or writing: it's both for the immersion in one POV as much as the mystery it creates on how the other characters really feel (compared to their visible reactions).

I'd have to say, mixing the two (omni and deep) just seem an almost incomprehensible tactic, to me. Definitely far above my skill level!

[pxcampbell.livejournal.com]

The icon is pay-back for that movie quote post you did a while back.

It's from The Ghost and Mrs. Muir -- the scene where Captain Greg tells Lucia (while she's sleeping) that he's going away that everything was a dream -- that she wrote the book by herself.

I like it because sometimes I feel like my characters are talking to me like the ghost of Captain Greg.

[aulus-poliutos.livejournal.com]

I'd have to say, mixing the two (omni and deep) just seem an almost incomprehensible tactic, to me. Definitely far above my skill level!

I don't know if I do it well, but the scenes that pop up in my head (out of order and for 3-4 projects parallell) come with a POV, doesn't work for me to rewrite an omni scene in single third, so I don't do it anymore.

It's crazy. Or maybe I'm crazy. :)

[vcmw]

I'm speaking as someone who generally dislikes reading multiple-point-of-view narratives here, but trying to be helpful...

I like what people said about starting with the character who is most active / has most agency in their scene. Or with a character who has the most to lose as the status quo tilts. I'd add that I personally enjoy it when the first chapter has a viewpoint character doing something either heroic or villainous - so that narrative demands immediately dictate that I will either be rooting for them or against them - this increases my stake in the story because I want to read the next chapter and know if this villain gets their comeuppance or the hero succeeds in their action. The kind of interesting, well-balanced and observational characters who "see" the narrative structure well don't make as good opening characters for me because they don't create as much tension in me.

The other thing that really helps me stay engaged in multiple viewpoint stories is if each viewpoint switch off accompanies an action by A that affects B as the viewpoint switches from A to B - so that it's like a different team taking control of the ball in a sport... like, in A's viewpoint A completes an action A1. And then as this action is completed we switch to the viewpoint of B, who is dealing with the consequences to B's narrative arc of A's action A1. The actions that B takes through their segment resolve or respond to some part of A1 (and may include plenty of stuff unrelated to A1, of course), and then their section closes with a bit that sets up some conflict for whoever the next narrative voice is (A again, or C, or D, but someone whose life just got complicated by B's action B1 at the close of B's narrative hunk). This setup makes reading the multiple-POV story like following a sports game, as opposed to solving a puzzle.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Also, if a particular character is going to kick the bucket at some point, then that character should not get the lion's share of the pages because there's the assumption in some genres that POV characters don't typically die.

Yeah, NOT KILLING your character that's the reader's main point of interest would be good. Heh. Now, you can put them in the hospital, maybe hurt 'em a little bit -- just a little bit -- but no dead characters. Killing bad.

Well, that's what I say when I have my reader hat on. Ask me again as a writer.

*slash*stab*maim*kill*

Ahem.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Shirley Jackson's The Haunting of Hill House

Was that multi-POV? I, uh, actually couldn't much get past the start. Hell, the first paragraph gave me the heebie-jeebies. Not because I didn't want to read it, but... okay, I think I got to the third chapter. AND I WAS ALREADY FRICKING TERRIFIED.

(The movie -- the original, not those knockoffs -- didn't exactly help, either. All those friends who love horror movies? Crazy people, because I spent half that specific movie UNDER THE SOFA. Oi. Jeebers.)

More than one POV bleeds off narrative drive and lowers the reader's identification with one character that is so necessary for suspense (sometimes). But it balances that with providing a bigger canvas and a more ambitious story.

I think it was Clancy who does this particular trick (that I'd spent most of hte morning trying to recall) -- Joe walks through past the guard, checks his badge, walks on. Next scene is from the guard's POV noting something that Joe missed, and that we know is important but that the guard doesn't know is important.

That's the sort of tension I love in multi-POV, where you're not doing omni, but instead delaying the pay-off until the next scene and its reflective viewpoint back onto the first scene (or as a continuation of the first, but from a different side). It's much like in camerawork, where the camera cuts away from the scene's original POV to give us a look-back shot, onto the POV character from an external/camera view.

Since in single POV it's not like you can ever say (at least not gracefully, or without some effort) things like haircolor or eyecolor -- when was the last time you looked at your eyes while talking to someone?

Okay, honestly, I like using multi-POV to burst another character's bubble. Joe thinks he's awesome. Cut to Jane, who's busy thinking about her grocery list. Woot.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

This setup makes reading the multiple-POV story like following a sports game, as opposed to solving a puzzle.

Great analogy -- and I agree. It's far more intriguing when the information learned in one scene somehow impacts the next scene (even if the characters themselves are unaware of the interaction). I might say it's like a blind chess game, as well, if you had like eighteen characters going in different directions... okay, yeah, sports game works better. ;-)

What you mention is actually part of what had stymied me (and still does, to some smaller degree) in the first drafts of this particular WiP. One character starts in a rural area of the US, another is in a large urban area... in Japan... and the third is in the city where they'll all eventually meet up. It's been quite awhile of deconstructing how other authors did it (the rare times such wide variety is even tried), and to see what works, and what does.

I'm all about the deconstruction when it comes to learning how to construct... err, but I guess that's kinda obvious by now.

[kaigou.livejournal.com]

Hah! Right back atcha.

(I'm not really a romantic kind of person -- my idea of romanc is fixing your bathroom shelves for you -- but I will confess I adored that movie in college. Other folks were watching, I dunno, old Disney movies and eating ice cream, while I watched GnMM, Slaves of New York, and LA Story. Sans ice cream.)

[pxcampbell.livejournal.com]

Ha! Me, too. I've always thought romance was a poor substitute for real engagement (like the kind where you get your bathroom shelves fixed).

Guess that's why Captain Gregg has always been one of my favorite heroes -- he's got that "fix it" attitude -- plus he doesn't let Lucia be a ninny. He's kind of "everyone's as competent as they want to be" kind of guy.

Yeah... "I found the perfect guy. He's fictional, but you can't have everything." (Name THAT movie.)

[dangrgirl.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, "kill your darlings" and all that. Some of those literary fiction types who detest the happily ever after ending might actually go for a protag who kicks it in the end.

[vcmw]

Well, one way I can think that disparate physical locations could work with a setup like that is if they're all engaged in or affected by some intermediary organizations - like corporations, guilds, scholarly networks, etc.?

With holding companies and what not, it would be possible to have a scenario where the actions of person A in Topeka, while not directly engaging with a company or whatnot, create a situation which the company wishes to respond to, and so then a memo/message/meeting is sent to person B in Jakarta who must take a series of actions that impinged on the activities of an NGO that is based in Washington DC where person C lives and works either with the NGO or with someone who C cares about a lot who works for the NGO (this kind of stuff is a lot more fun to string together when your own personal narrative isn't invested in the sequencing, I suspect :) )

[kellicat.livejournal.com]

Have you ever read A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin? That uses multiple 3rd person POVs successfully and it starts off the story well with a minor character's POV.