This was the first time I'd heard the Kuroshitsuji dub and my immediate thought was that Sebastian's VA must've been the VA for Ronnie in Baccano! -- there's that same sense of sly amusement and the same inflection of self-satisfaction and self-indulgence.
Turns out I was wrong. Whoops.
But in response to your footnote and last example, I think the shift in Ciel's last line during the contract-making exchange is really important, simply because it not just shifts the entire tone of Ciel's relationship with Sebastian but also messes with Ciel's character arc, which (at the time I stopped reading the manga, whoops) was that, given his relationship with Sebastian, he was slipping down a darker and darker path. It's not just that he sold his soul for unimaginable power, it's what he's choosing to use that power (i.e. Sebastian) for, as well as all the other forms of power he has as a member of the British aristocracy and wealthy businessman. Like Faust, Kuroshitsuji's ancestor, what's important is that Ciel wasn't only capable of giving a command to Sebastian while in a situation of desperation, it's that he gave the command in the first place -- he chose, as consciously as possible, knowing the consequences, to accept Sebastian's offer.
If you'll excuse the jump in topic, it's kind of like ancient Greek tragedy. Sure, Oedipus was fated to kill his dad and sleep with him mom -- but his actions still dictated how that fate came to pass, and it was his lack of self-awareness that meant the revelation of what he did is drawn out in as long and painful a process as possible. Powers that be put him in the corner, so to speak, but Oedipus still built the fence that trapped him there. He's still culpable for the crimes he committed. It's the same with Japanese-Ciel -- the nobles trying to summon Sebastian put Ciel in a situation of abuse and desperation where Sebastian was his only way out, but. Ciel also showed no hesitation whatsoever in commanding, demanding that Sebastian cede to him the power he craved. And that's a really important part of Ciel's character, so to obviate that by giving him even the slightest bit of uncertainty when confronted with Sebastian's offer is, well, I think it's a pretty huge distortion of the original manga and anime.
My last thought is that Sebastian's "one hell of a butler" line is one that just doesn't work for me in translation. Aside from the lost puns, it's one of those lines that, to me, has an inflection that just doesn't work in translation, not if you translate it literally. There's only one other line that I'd think of that way, and it's Kusuri-uri's response whenever someone asks him who he is (I'm thinking of an episode in particular, actually, but I can't remember which one.). It's not just the VA's inflection, which could be replicated, but the cadence of the Japanese itself. I think of Sebastian's "one hell of a butler/demon and a butler" line like that, it just doesn't really work, even if technically the words do.
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Date: 26 Oct 2011 03:45 am (UTC)Turns out I was wrong. Whoops.
But in response to your footnote and last example, I think the shift in Ciel's last line during the contract-making exchange is really important, simply because it not just shifts the entire tone of Ciel's relationship with Sebastian but also messes with Ciel's character arc, which (at the time I stopped reading the manga, whoops) was that, given his relationship with Sebastian, he was slipping down a darker and darker path. It's not just that he sold his soul for unimaginable power, it's what he's choosing to use that power (i.e. Sebastian) for, as well as all the other forms of power he has as a member of the British aristocracy and wealthy businessman. Like Faust, Kuroshitsuji's ancestor, what's important is that Ciel wasn't only capable of giving a command to Sebastian while in a situation of desperation, it's that he gave the command in the first place -- he chose, as consciously as possible, knowing the consequences, to accept Sebastian's offer.
If you'll excuse the jump in topic, it's kind of like ancient Greek tragedy. Sure, Oedipus was fated to kill his dad and sleep with him mom -- but his actions still dictated how that fate came to pass, and it was his lack of self-awareness that meant the revelation of what he did is drawn out in as long and painful a process as possible. Powers that be put him in the corner, so to speak, but Oedipus still built the fence that trapped him there. He's still culpable for the crimes he committed. It's the same with Japanese-Ciel -- the nobles trying to summon Sebastian put Ciel in a situation of abuse and desperation where Sebastian was his only way out, but. Ciel also showed no hesitation whatsoever in commanding, demanding that Sebastian cede to him the power he craved. And that's a really important part of Ciel's character, so to obviate that by giving him even the slightest bit of uncertainty when confronted with Sebastian's offer is, well, I think it's a pretty huge distortion of the original manga and anime.
My last thought is that Sebastian's "one hell of a butler" line is one that just doesn't work for me in translation. Aside from the lost puns, it's one of those lines that, to me, has an inflection that just doesn't work in translation, not if you translate it literally. There's only one other line that I'd think of that way, and it's Kusuri-uri's response whenever someone asks him who he is (I'm thinking of an episode in particular, actually, but I can't remember which one.). It's not just the VA's inflection, which could be replicated, but the cadence of the Japanese itself. I think of Sebastian's "one hell of a butler/demon and a butler" line like that, it just doesn't really work, even if technically the words do.