I really adore your posting. You seem to have pretty much the same stance on the topic as I do, and "damsel with fighter tendencies" is a really nifty term for it.
What drives me up a wall is, indeed, the usual derailing such criticism gets (as your posting shows, someone commented to your posting with the usual attempt at derailing). Apparently, many people in fandom see it as really mean to ask for female characters who are equally capable to male characters in series like that.
Bleach seems to be the worst offender in that regard. I can't count the number of times where a woman is set up as somewhat strong, just to get completely knocked down, needing guys to step in. And if you bring it up? People cite the one time Orihime didn't need help to somehow prove Bleach is okay and that you totally are mean because you're saying female characters need all to have combat ability!!11 (except, of course, there's not exactly a surplus of characters like that threatening to blot out those without...)
The sad thing is that there are some canons with really capable female characters, even leads. ...But you're not allowed to bring them up. They will be dismissed as "moe", since "cast with lots of females that do awesome stuff" = "moe crap" the moment one design could be called cute.
One of my fandoms is like that. The main girl (and no, there's no guy who could save her. The only noticeable guy is a shopkeeper) would give most shonen heroes a run for their money. She's also a sloth, really likes getting money, and her main tactic to solve incidents is shooting down everyone who gets into her way until someone manages to direct her to the true cause of the problem - which she mostly does so she can get back home faster and sleep. The canon? Touhou. Despite a female main character like that, despite a chessmistress character, despite the second main heroine being a take on the "massive power bursts at once" shonen kind of hero...everyone dismisses Touhou as "Moe crap". Yeah, some designs are pretty cute, but if you go by what the characters actually do... they're pretty badass indeed, and are very varied as far as personalities go. And capable? Yes, they are, more so than most male shonen leads, even putting fighting ability aside.
Or take another anime that routinely gets blasted as moe, because it dares to have female main characters. They just happen to be a group of soldiers. Who end up stopping a war. But that doesn't matter: The main girl is cute and has a ditzy moment sometimes, and therefore it's a moeblob show that doesn't deserve consideration. Also scary non-white people around, one of which has deep subtext with another person of her gender, can't have that.
Precure? Dismissed, cutesy magical girl stuff, can't be useful. Let's ignore the heroines punching the heck out of enemies, and there even being a female-female fight with similar iconography than, say, the Naruto vs Sasuke fight in Naruto. Canaan? Dismissed, a female villain has a fanservice scene, must be fanservice crap. The main heroine and other capable female characters don't matter. Not to mention scary non-white and middle eastern people. El Cazador? Dismissed. One of the heroines looks moe, and a dark skinned south-american female character with an afro? The sky would fall if anyone would watch it. Moribito? People just ignore that this series exists.
Fandom really doesn't seem to want shows with lots of female characters doing things.
Here by metafandom
Date: 25 Sep 2010 10:09 pm (UTC)What drives me up a wall is, indeed, the usual derailing such criticism gets (as your posting shows, someone commented to your posting with the usual attempt at derailing). Apparently, many people in fandom see it as really mean to ask for female characters who are equally capable to male characters in series like that.
Bleach seems to be the worst offender in that regard. I can't count the number of times where a woman is set up as somewhat strong, just to get completely knocked down, needing guys to step in. And if you bring it up? People cite the one time Orihime didn't need help to somehow prove Bleach is okay and that you totally are mean because you're saying female characters need all to have combat ability!!11 (except, of course, there's not exactly a surplus of characters like that threatening to blot out those without...)
The sad thing is that there are some canons with really capable female characters, even leads. ...But you're not allowed to bring them up. They will be dismissed as "moe", since "cast with lots of females that do awesome stuff" = "moe crap" the moment one design could be called cute.
One of my fandoms is like that.
The main girl (and no, there's no guy who could save her. The only noticeable guy is a shopkeeper) would give most shonen heroes a run for their money. She's also a sloth, really likes getting money, and her main tactic to solve incidents is shooting down everyone who gets into her way until someone manages to direct her to the true cause of the problem - which she mostly does so she can get back home faster and sleep.
The canon? Touhou.
Despite a female main character like that, despite a chessmistress character, despite the second main heroine being a take on the "massive power bursts at once" shonen kind of hero...everyone dismisses Touhou as "Moe crap". Yeah, some designs are pretty cute, but if you go by what the characters actually do... they're pretty badass indeed, and are very varied as far as personalities go. And capable? Yes, they are, more so than most male shonen leads, even putting fighting ability aside.
Or take another anime that routinely gets blasted as moe, because it dares to have female main characters. They just happen to be a group of soldiers. Who end up stopping a war. But that doesn't matter: The main girl is cute and has a ditzy moment sometimes, and therefore it's a moeblob show that doesn't deserve consideration. Also scary non-white people around, one of which has deep subtext with another person of her gender, can't have that.
Precure? Dismissed, cutesy magical girl stuff, can't be useful. Let's ignore the heroines punching the heck out of enemies, and there even being a female-female fight with similar iconography than, say, the Naruto vs Sasuke fight in Naruto.
Canaan? Dismissed, a female villain has a fanservice scene, must be fanservice crap. The main heroine and other capable female characters don't matter. Not to mention scary non-white and middle eastern people.
El Cazador? Dismissed. One of the heroines looks moe, and a dark skinned south-american female character with an afro? The sky would fall if anyone would watch it.
Moribito? People just ignore that this series exists.
Fandom really doesn't seem to want shows with lots of female characters doing things.
Bitter? Me? Never.