one of the things that gets me about Japanese language instruction at least in the States is the outsize weight put on the concept of keigo
The impression I have of that (for better or worse) is that there's also some racial/cultural bias going on in there, too: that You Who Are Not Like Us (that is, Japanese) could never possibly comprehend how we relate, therefore we must beat courtesy into your head by insisting that you keigo, keigo, keigo. Though the thing is, I never would've made that realization were it not for seeing how native-Japanese teachers treat American-born Japanese (2nd-gen and on who are English-only speakers) -- those students get it even worse than Anglo students, who at least have the benefit of being talking monkeys. (IOW: not required to be perfect, because a monkey who can talk is still amazing enough that it doesn't matter that it can only manage 1st grade level, because, hey! talking monkey!)
There's nothing intrinsically difficult about it; it's just more memorization.
This is true of any language, though -- whether it's one in which formality is encoded in verb-endings like Japanese, or using completely different words if the audience is male versus female like in Korean, or superficially appears to have absolutely no formal-courtesy at all like some of the Teutonic languages (or even Chinese, for that matter). All languages and cultures have varying levels of formality, so there's always a way to 'translate' (if not word-for-word) one culture to the next at least in terms of politeness. It's the notion that because one language uses -san on the end that someone speaking a non-san language could 'never understand' that bugs me -- and so, I suppose, that's part of the reason that excessive quasi-fangirl-nihongo also bothers me, because it contrives to continue this kind of linguistic tunnel-vision.
Hell, the story in question even uses "Honorable Husband" as an effective and graceful way to imply the affection that can exist within such apparent formality, so it just seems lazy to me that the author couldn't work a little harder to apply this kind of succinct verbal grace to other relationships, as well.
no subject
Date: 27 Aug 2010 06:31 am (UTC)The impression I have of that (for better or worse) is that there's also some racial/cultural bias going on in there, too: that You Who Are Not Like Us (that is, Japanese) could never possibly comprehend how we relate, therefore we must beat courtesy into your head by insisting that you keigo, keigo, keigo. Though the thing is, I never would've made that realization were it not for seeing how native-Japanese teachers treat American-born Japanese (2nd-gen and on who are English-only speakers) -- those students get it even worse than Anglo students, who at least have the benefit of being talking monkeys. (IOW: not required to be perfect, because a monkey who can talk is still amazing enough that it doesn't matter that it can only manage 1st grade level, because, hey! talking monkey!)
There's nothing intrinsically difficult about it; it's just more memorization.
This is true of any language, though -- whether it's one in which formality is encoded in verb-endings like Japanese, or using completely different words if the audience is male versus female like in Korean, or superficially appears to have absolutely no formal-courtesy at all like some of the Teutonic languages (or even Chinese, for that matter). All languages and cultures have varying levels of formality, so there's always a way to 'translate' (if not word-for-word) one culture to the next at least in terms of politeness. It's the notion that because one language uses -san on the end that someone speaking a non-san language could 'never understand' that bugs me -- and so, I suppose, that's part of the reason that excessive quasi-fangirl-nihongo also bothers me, because it contrives to continue this kind of linguistic tunnel-vision.
Hell, the story in question even uses "Honorable Husband" as an effective and graceful way to imply the affection that can exist within such apparent formality, so it just seems lazy to me that the author couldn't work a little harder to apply this kind of succinct verbal grace to other relationships, as well.