1. Very true. Thing is, most (white) women are more likely to notice gender discrimination against themselves than racial discrimination against others. That whole privilege thing.
2. The 'answering yes' as indicative of 'gee, I don't have privilege' is something I can see for all the questions, which is one reason I've waffled on how they're asked, whether to ask them, how else to ask. Because I have known plenty of white people who'd seriously argue that so long as some kind of diversity is valued, so long as there exists even a hint of an implication of quota (or even, for some, a hint of trying to give more credit o' doubt to minority applicants instead of always just 'picking the white guy'), that therefore as white people they're seriously discriminated against. The same goes for "places I'd want to go that I can't because of my color" -- I've known people contrary enough and entitled enough that they'd say, "hell, yeah!" because to them, the notion of, say, a nightclub that wouldn't be so welcoming to their white skin is therefore automatically a sign of major and traumatic discrimination. (We'll ignore the violin I hear playing in the background.)
Thing is, on some levels, when I think of people I've known -- the ones more entitled and more privileged are more likely to see slights against themselves (of any kind), because they stand in a cultural zone where, basically, their privilege assumes that such slights are Not Okay. Those less entitled and less privileged operate either under denial (to get along), or sometimes seem to have internalized the racist attitude such that it's not a matter of denial, but that it's just never questioned. So to ask, "did someone tell you not to try for such-and-such a job because of your skin color?", I can think of people who don't see the answer is yes, not because they don't see, but because they never questioned that maybe the answer should be, ideally, NO.
there are areas where being of the locally-dominant group is higher status than being a random member of the globally-dominant group.
Since I don't want to ask questions that are US-ian focused (or even, really, West/North Europe focused + US focused) -- but to allow for a variety of foci (culturally) -- the simple question of "are you white?" answers that basic global comparison. Figuring out a way to ask whether someone is part of their dominant/privileged culture -- outside the "are you white" paradigm -- is the harder thing. Like the Argentinean and Mexican comments on this thread (IIRC), the 'majority' of people are darker-skinned, while the privileged group is lighter-skinned. A reversal of the US, where the apparent majority (by a very slim thread, in terms of numbers) remains white such that 'minority' literally means 'a group that isn't as numerically large'. Outnumbered... and that concept of majority/minority doesn't hold for many (if not most) cultures, where the privileged are almost always a minority of some kind.
As for the final question... I think a lot of people might interpret 'privileged class' to mean 'CLASS' as in "makes a lot of money!" and thereby -- even if otherwise part of the dominant group -- see themselves as having to say "yes" (there'd be an issue) because of acute awareness that their family are factory workers and, obviously, privileged people are Rich Bastards. And it seems to me that even if you clarify in terms of skin color or appearance, that this nuance is easy to miss, and to get caught up in classism since that's a lot easier to quantify ("he makes more money than I do, because he's a doctor and I'm not") than nebulous and often touchy personal subjects like race.
Actually, my current draft (of a larger survey based on this one) uses skin color as the trigger -- which at least cuts out the chance of white guys demanding to see themselves as discriminated against, seeing how being white means you wouldn't even be asked the additional three questions at all.
But I'm also still researching, trying to find an established path to follow when it comes to measuring such things... or more concretely: examples of other peoples' surveys!
no subject
Date: 21 May 2010 09:27 pm (UTC)2. The 'answering yes' as indicative of 'gee, I don't have privilege' is something I can see for all the questions, which is one reason I've waffled on how they're asked, whether to ask them, how else to ask. Because I have known plenty of white people who'd seriously argue that so long as some kind of diversity is valued, so long as there exists even a hint of an implication of quota (or even, for some, a hint of trying to give more credit o' doubt to minority applicants instead of always just 'picking the white guy'), that therefore as white people they're seriously discriminated against. The same goes for "places I'd want to go that I can't because of my color" -- I've known people contrary enough and entitled enough that they'd say, "hell, yeah!" because to them, the notion of, say, a nightclub that wouldn't be so welcoming to their white skin is therefore automatically a sign of major and traumatic discrimination. (We'll ignore the violin I hear playing in the background.)
Thing is, on some levels, when I think of people I've known -- the ones more entitled and more privileged are more likely to see slights against themselves (of any kind), because they stand in a cultural zone where, basically, their privilege assumes that such slights are Not Okay. Those less entitled and less privileged operate either under denial (to get along), or sometimes seem to have internalized the racist attitude such that it's not a matter of denial, but that it's just never questioned. So to ask, "did someone tell you not to try for such-and-such a job because of your skin color?", I can think of people who don't see the answer is yes, not because they don't see, but because they never questioned that maybe the answer should be, ideally, NO.
there are areas where being of the locally-dominant group is higher status than being a random member of the globally-dominant group.
Since I don't want to ask questions that are US-ian focused (or even, really, West/North Europe focused + US focused) -- but to allow for a variety of foci (culturally) -- the simple question of "are you white?" answers that basic global comparison. Figuring out a way to ask whether someone is part of their dominant/privileged culture -- outside the "are you white" paradigm -- is the harder thing. Like the Argentinean and Mexican comments on this thread (IIRC), the 'majority' of people are darker-skinned, while the privileged group is lighter-skinned. A reversal of the US, where the apparent majority (by a very slim thread, in terms of numbers) remains white such that 'minority' literally means 'a group that isn't as numerically large'. Outnumbered... and that concept of majority/minority doesn't hold for many (if not most) cultures, where the privileged are almost always a minority of some kind.
As for the final question... I think a lot of people might interpret 'privileged class' to mean 'CLASS' as in "makes a lot of money!" and thereby -- even if otherwise part of the dominant group -- see themselves as having to say "yes" (there'd be an issue) because of acute awareness that their family are factory workers and, obviously, privileged people are Rich Bastards. And it seems to me that even if you clarify in terms of skin color or appearance, that this nuance is easy to miss, and to get caught up in classism since that's a lot easier to quantify ("he makes more money than I do, because he's a doctor and I'm not") than nebulous and often touchy personal subjects like race.
Actually, my current draft (of a larger survey based on this one) uses skin color as the trigger -- which at least cuts out the chance of white guys demanding to see themselves as discriminated against, seeing how being white means you wouldn't even be asked the additional three questions at all.
But I'm also still researching, trying to find an established path to follow when it comes to measuring such things... or more concretely: examples of other peoples' surveys!