my brain is so on crack right now.
6 Nov 2007 03:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
kaigou[When was the last time I had this much fun? Erm, perhaps when I had a weekly fest of my own analysis reflected against that of ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
habibti and _branch_, for Fullmetal Alchemist? Or perhaps farther back, when I had an almost daily immersion into the philosophical and metaphorical ramifications in Whedon's Buffy? Whatever it is, however long it's been, you may just have to tolerate the number of upcoming posts... because truly, I am having way too much fun. Here's hoping it lasts.]
Over on![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
gundam00, shinigami39 posted a few contemplations about Saji, Alleluia, Soma, Louise, and Setsuna, and how they might be tied together (including mention of the current theory from some fans that Saji is slated to be the 5th pilot). [Warning: spoilers for eps 1-5.] The following is my answer on the comm, along with additional comments, because a) I was long enough already in the comm-reply, and b) I'm not convinced everyone really needs exposure to an analyst-philosopher's brain on crack.
I'm not entirely certain Louise would be best described as "rich" (since the implication, I gathered, was that Saji's sister paid extra so he could have a private cabin, per Louise's request) -- so much as perhaps simply "spoiled". Discussing/considering Louise makes me think of (I believe it was)haya5hi's observation of Orehime in Bleach: that her role, in the first major arc, was as "the normal girl" among a party of super-characters -- though I'd say that's really Tatsuki's place, the point holds. If you're going to have a bunch of characters who are just so fantastic! powerful! amazing! then you need an active contrast to illustrate what's normal -- otherwise a viewer/reader could assume that the entire cast are 'normal', and look to some other detail as indicating exemplary.
This is why we have our Tatsukis (Bleach) and Louises (Gundam 00) and Hildes (Gundam W) and Tandas (Seirei no Moribito)... though I do wonder at the fact that the majority of examples I can think of, off the top of my head, are all female. (Hey, Japan, could you please catch up to the rest of the industrialized world when it comes to women's roles? Hell, even China is more advanced than you. Sheesh.)
Anyway, Louise -- and Saji, too, perhaps -- exists as a representation of the average, to heighten the extent of unaverage, or abnormal, in Setsuna and his CB peers. (This works both ways; in Naruto, I'm having a tough time thinking of a 'normal level' character, as the entire point is that the above-average characters getting screentime are meant to demonstrate just what is 'normal', or 'average', for that world.) So Saji is analytical and studious, while Louise plays on the web during class; Saji echoes his sister's investigative thinking and wonders about whether CB can be truly altruistic, while Louise dismisses it as so far beyond her daily scope as to be unimportant or at least not worth more than a moment's notice.
She's somewhat pre-occupied, most interested in what amuses her in the moment, eager to experience new things... these are all characteristic of the average, pretty-normal-background adolescent to young adult. Her dismissiveness is annoying only because we're attuned to the Gundam pilots' war-focused mindset (and moreso for the longterm fans), and we've been taught that in mecha, the 'average' mindset is the ignorant/innocent who's best left out of the fight -- so in some instances, we'd rather leave them out of the story, too... but the point is that if such characters are not in the frame, it's as easy for the viewers to forget (as it is dangerous/narrow for the pilots themselves to forget) the entire purpose of fighting.
A corollary for the Gundam W fans on my flist: recall that Duo's explanation for his motivation, to Hilde, is that he wants to bring smiles back to the people of L2, which is essentially Duo's concept of his 'hometown' on a 'this is my country' scale. The kicker in that scene is that he's saying it to Hilde, who is one of those people he's fighting for. This realization is both humbling and shocking to her, hence her hesitation in shooting him for his at-first-blush arrogance. The scene's value is in illustrating that although the series does not always consistently show the 'little people', Duo has not forgotten them. Giving those unwilling/unable to fight or defend a chance at peaceful, fulfilling lives is his entire motivation for taking on such a role. In this respect, from a storyteller's POV, I think Gundam 00 is simply introducing a Hilde-variant, this time from the beginning.
I must add: I find it sweetly ironic that Louise means woman of war.
It makes no sense, background-wise, that Setsuna could be connected to the HRL machinations, although I agree Alleluia & Soma are probably tied somehow. Nor can I see Saji becoming the missing 004, or a new 006, let alone really having much to do with the meisters in the first place. He's voiced one too many times a serious amount of doubt in the chances of true altruism from any organization with such incredible power, and he seems both disturbed and uncertain about the true efficacy or benefit of Celestial Being's actions so far. (This may be one of those instances where plotline requirements mesh nicely with characterization, in that Saji's sister -- as a journalist -- gives the viewers a "what the world thinks" POV, while her tendency to general skepticism and impartial investigation lends credence to the notion that Saji might have incorporated such characteristics into his own POV.)
In fact, like the notion of an echoing Hilde, I'd expect Gundam 00 is using the same gambit as previous series, in which a character is added/presented as a sort of mirror or contrast. A "there but for the grace of god" kind of thing, such as Soma's certainty (even complacence) in being a 'designer baby' for whom enlistment as a soldier [iow, created/used for war] was always a given, not a choice. She's clearly a mirror to Alleluia (ignoring the melodramatic SFF-style Jekyll/Hyde exposition in ep5), who does appear to have chosen, and to have chosen a side that seeks to end war (and by extension, the need for such war-designed babies).
Given that Saji is close to Setsuna's age, is a next-door neighbor, and for the most part seems to be an easy-going, somewhat open -- but hardly stupid -- kid, I'd expect him to become Setsuna's mirror, in a storytelling context. I can't help but note that Setsuna has been seen twice now, reading the newspaper and watching the news, with what I might call an intently thoughtful expression, as though he's turning stuff over in his head*; I can't help but wonder if he spent his Gundam-training years in relative isolation. Saji, with access (and experience of) the world/politics/reality -- and his relative open-eyed, big-picture, stable, non-war-screwed, trust of the world -- could potentially be a major influence on such a PTSD-laden, distrustful, tight-beam-focus mind like Setsuna's.
* This could just be me reading into it. Given that previously he's been partnered with Stratos (who seems to act as the news-bringer while Seiei stares into the middle distance, uncaring), Setsuna may be simply trying to keep track of world events in the absence of Stratos' influence. I'm not certain, despite that, that I get any impression other than that Setsuna doesn't necessarily comprehend what he's reading -- that is, that he knows how to put it all together, or analyze it.
Seiei's personality, at least as demonstrated so far, is just too narrow-beamed -- contrast Acre's expansive and insightful discussion of the Ceylon conflict versus Seiei's tight focus on the stark and simplistic classification of "racial warfare". Acre's exposition is crucial for alerting us that the political situation is hardly as simply as only "racial warfare", a fact which either passes Seiei by, or Seiei notes and dismisses. In that sense, even, Seiei is more like Louise, who dismisses that which doesn't have immediate impact on her.
With a writer's cap on, I'd say also that Stratos could be that kind of reality-check in Seiei's circle, but that he (for whatever reason, possibly a mix of having his own issues, being aware of the damage of Seiei's issues, and/or accepting the slightly-distanced, minorly-affectionate 'big brother' role) doesn't really push Seiei. That is, he seems to spend more time trying to reel Seiei in, whereas I can see Saji being a person who'd simply ask, "why [do you think/say/do that]?" -- thanks to naivete or ignorance of the danger of such questions to some mindsets (ie, questioning orders/status quo is par for the course for a journalist but can be deadly for a soldier).
Truth is: with every passing episode, I get the distinct feeling that this time around, the bad guys are the Gundams themselves. I wonder at which point, or how, each pilot will realize that. Rather curious, that reaction o' mine... I think.
And now, I must sand down the drywalling I did last night, and get the last skim coat up so it can be dry in time to prime before I take the dogs to the vet... Expanding further on this, along with my further adventures in geekery (per earlier comparative post andpenship's replies) will have to wait until later.
Until then, remember: it's not Gundam if no one cries, at least once in the series, "Oh my god, it's... a Gundam!"
habibti and _branch_, for Fullmetal Alchemist? Or perhaps farther back, when I had an almost daily immersion into the philosophical and metaphorical ramifications in Whedon's Buffy? Whatever it is, however long it's been, you may just have to tolerate the number of upcoming posts... because truly, I am having way too much fun. Here's hoping it lasts.]Over on
gundam00, shinigami39 posted a few contemplations about Saji, Alleluia, Soma, Louise, and Setsuna, and how they might be tied together (including mention of the current theory from some fans that Saji is slated to be the 5th pilot). [Warning: spoilers for eps 1-5.] The following is my answer on the comm, along with additional comments, because a) I was long enough already in the comm-reply, and b) I'm not convinced everyone really needs exposure to an analyst-philosopher's brain on crack.I'm not entirely certain Louise would be best described as "rich" (since the implication, I gathered, was that Saji's sister paid extra so he could have a private cabin, per Louise's request) -- so much as perhaps simply "spoiled". Discussing/considering Louise makes me think of (I believe it was)
haya5hi's observation of Orehime in Bleach: that her role, in the first major arc, was as "the normal girl" among a party of super-characters -- though I'd say that's really Tatsuki's place, the point holds. If you're going to have a bunch of characters who are just so fantastic! powerful! amazing! then you need an active contrast to illustrate what's normal -- otherwise a viewer/reader could assume that the entire cast are 'normal', and look to some other detail as indicating exemplary. This is why we have our Tatsukis (Bleach) and Louises (Gundam 00) and Hildes (Gundam W) and Tandas (Seirei no Moribito)... though I do wonder at the fact that the majority of examples I can think of, off the top of my head, are all female. (Hey, Japan, could you please catch up to the rest of the industrialized world when it comes to women's roles? Hell, even China is more advanced than you. Sheesh.)
Anyway, Louise -- and Saji, too, perhaps -- exists as a representation of the average, to heighten the extent of unaverage, or abnormal, in Setsuna and his CB peers. (This works both ways; in Naruto, I'm having a tough time thinking of a 'normal level' character, as the entire point is that the above-average characters getting screentime are meant to demonstrate just what is 'normal', or 'average', for that world.) So Saji is analytical and studious, while Louise plays on the web during class; Saji echoes his sister's investigative thinking and wonders about whether CB can be truly altruistic, while Louise dismisses it as so far beyond her daily scope as to be unimportant or at least not worth more than a moment's notice.
She's somewhat pre-occupied, most interested in what amuses her in the moment, eager to experience new things... these are all characteristic of the average, pretty-normal-background adolescent to young adult. Her dismissiveness is annoying only because we're attuned to the Gundam pilots' war-focused mindset (and moreso for the longterm fans), and we've been taught that in mecha, the 'average' mindset is the ignorant/innocent who's best left out of the fight -- so in some instances, we'd rather leave them out of the story, too... but the point is that if such characters are not in the frame, it's as easy for the viewers to forget (as it is dangerous/narrow for the pilots themselves to forget) the entire purpose of fighting.
A corollary for the Gundam W fans on my flist: recall that Duo's explanation for his motivation, to Hilde, is that he wants to bring smiles back to the people of L2, which is essentially Duo's concept of his 'hometown' on a 'this is my country' scale. The kicker in that scene is that he's saying it to Hilde, who is one of those people he's fighting for. This realization is both humbling and shocking to her, hence her hesitation in shooting him for his at-first-blush arrogance. The scene's value is in illustrating that although the series does not always consistently show the 'little people', Duo has not forgotten them. Giving those unwilling/unable to fight or defend a chance at peaceful, fulfilling lives is his entire motivation for taking on such a role. In this respect, from a storyteller's POV, I think Gundam 00 is simply introducing a Hilde-variant, this time from the beginning.
I must add: I find it sweetly ironic that Louise means woman of war.
It makes no sense, background-wise, that Setsuna could be connected to the HRL machinations, although I agree Alleluia & Soma are probably tied somehow. Nor can I see Saji becoming the missing 004, or a new 006, let alone really having much to do with the meisters in the first place. He's voiced one too many times a serious amount of doubt in the chances of true altruism from any organization with such incredible power, and he seems both disturbed and uncertain about the true efficacy or benefit of Celestial Being's actions so far. (This may be one of those instances where plotline requirements mesh nicely with characterization, in that Saji's sister -- as a journalist -- gives the viewers a "what the world thinks" POV, while her tendency to general skepticism and impartial investigation lends credence to the notion that Saji might have incorporated such characteristics into his own POV.)
In fact, like the notion of an echoing Hilde, I'd expect Gundam 00 is using the same gambit as previous series, in which a character is added/presented as a sort of mirror or contrast. A "there but for the grace of god" kind of thing, such as Soma's certainty (even complacence) in being a 'designer baby' for whom enlistment as a soldier [iow, created/used for war] was always a given, not a choice. She's clearly a mirror to Alleluia (ignoring the melodramatic SFF-style Jekyll/Hyde exposition in ep5), who does appear to have chosen, and to have chosen a side that seeks to end war (and by extension, the need for such war-designed babies).
Given that Saji is close to Setsuna's age, is a next-door neighbor, and for the most part seems to be an easy-going, somewhat open -- but hardly stupid -- kid, I'd expect him to become Setsuna's mirror, in a storytelling context. I can't help but note that Setsuna has been seen twice now, reading the newspaper and watching the news, with what I might call an intently thoughtful expression, as though he's turning stuff over in his head*; I can't help but wonder if he spent his Gundam-training years in relative isolation. Saji, with access (and experience of) the world/politics/reality -- and his relative open-eyed, big-picture, stable, non-war-screwed, trust of the world -- could potentially be a major influence on such a PTSD-laden, distrustful, tight-beam-focus mind like Setsuna's.
* This could just be me reading into it. Given that previously he's been partnered with Stratos (who seems to act as the news-bringer while Seiei stares into the middle distance, uncaring), Setsuna may be simply trying to keep track of world events in the absence of Stratos' influence. I'm not certain, despite that, that I get any impression other than that Setsuna doesn't necessarily comprehend what he's reading -- that is, that he knows how to put it all together, or analyze it.
Seiei's personality, at least as demonstrated so far, is just too narrow-beamed -- contrast Acre's expansive and insightful discussion of the Ceylon conflict versus Seiei's tight focus on the stark and simplistic classification of "racial warfare". Acre's exposition is crucial for alerting us that the political situation is hardly as simply as only "racial warfare", a fact which either passes Seiei by, or Seiei notes and dismisses. In that sense, even, Seiei is more like Louise, who dismisses that which doesn't have immediate impact on her.
With a writer's cap on, I'd say also that Stratos could be that kind of reality-check in Seiei's circle, but that he (for whatever reason, possibly a mix of having his own issues, being aware of the damage of Seiei's issues, and/or accepting the slightly-distanced, minorly-affectionate 'big brother' role) doesn't really push Seiei. That is, he seems to spend more time trying to reel Seiei in, whereas I can see Saji being a person who'd simply ask, "why [do you think/say/do that]?" -- thanks to naivete or ignorance of the danger of such questions to some mindsets (ie, questioning orders/status quo is par for the course for a journalist but can be deadly for a soldier).
Truth is: with every passing episode, I get the distinct feeling that this time around, the bad guys are the Gundams themselves. I wonder at which point, or how, each pilot will realize that. Rather curious, that reaction o' mine... I think.
And now, I must sand down the drywalling I did last night, and get the last skim coat up so it can be dry in time to prime before I take the dogs to the vet... Expanding further on this, along with my further adventures in geekery (per earlier comparative post and
penship's replies) will have to wait until later. Until then, remember: it's not Gundam if no one cries, at least once in the series, "Oh my god, it's... a Gundam!"
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no subject
Date: 6 Nov 2007 10:17 pm (UTC)Once a series? Not once an episode?
no subject
Date: 7 Nov 2007 06:50 am (UTC)Whoa, I think that's also plausible ^^ Maybe Louise will become Orihime-ish in the later part of the series? I know that not everyone can shine like the protagonists, but yeah. I don't want to think of any character as "useless" ^^;; And now that I think about it, Saji and Louise could provide the 'world's perspective' on the gundam fights.
I'm not entirely certain Louise would be best described as "rich" ... - Well, I'm not really sure now ^^;; I only watched the RAW, so it's very probable that I misunderstood a lot of things
About Setsuna, IMO, it seems that his only 'anchor' so far, now, is Lockon ^^;; It will be good for his personality (or lack of) if he can find some other person with a different POV about things ;)
He's battling to become the most uptight-person-ever with TieriaYES! :) I think it will be a great twist if the Gundams/Celestial Being end up being the bad guys ^^;;
And yeah. Theories theories! Thanks for posting this! ^_^ Reading Gundam00 stuff is definitely a great way to start the day~
PS: You're awesome for thinking all of this! ♥
no subject
Date: 7 Nov 2007 07:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 7 Nov 2007 07:33 am (UTC)Other posts so far: there's one on comparing Gundams & real-world fighter jets (because if anything, I am sick and tired of "but W was so unrealistic in terms of weight/size" -- have these people never heard of carbon nanotube technology?) -- http://kaigou.livejournal.com/411930.html -- and one on ep1 & ep2 together, at http://kaigou.livejournal.com/411268.html. I'm working on one for ep3/4, and another for what I've noted on characters so far, and a third on contemplating the technologies.
Erm, like I said: brain never goes off. Seriously.
no subject
Date: 8 Nov 2007 08:56 pm (UTC)