kaigou: this is what I do, darling (gimme tea)
[personal profile] kaigou
Question for everyone, about possession/protection in stories. Your impressions don't have to revolve around or be based solely on romantic sub/plots (RSP for easier typing), but in general, though it's most often overused in RSP.

In case I need to mention it again, interpersonal dynamics are absolute fascination to me, especially when you add in any sort of imbalance of power. Given that, you may get already the gist of what I mean when I bring up characters being possessive or protective: it's most often the more powerful character, the one with little to obviously gain, who feels anywhere from unexpectedly protective (or the shadow-side version, possessive) of another character -- to the RSP style in which it's an almost obsessive and immediate protective/possessive sense.

I can't recall now whether I discussed it here, though CP and I discussed the topic: if, at some point, in everyday real relationships, there's been an overwhelming (or at least just very strong) sense of needing/wanting to 'protect' a loved one. The premise I gave was similar to a hundred RSP situations, where Alpha-half looks over to see lover (or more often, simply potential lover) and wants to leap to the lover's defense. Or, at the extreme, to actually remove the destined/intended lover from the scene altogether to isolate/remove him/her from the danger -- which I must also add isn't always even that articulated, so much as a general flash of intense jealousy.

When I read such scenes, I can't help but see it not just from the POV-character's overweening anxiety/jealousy (which may or may not be understandable given the author's set up), but I also see it from the object's POV, and I always find myself thinking: hey, jerkwad, I'm quite capable. Don't treat me like I'm either so fragile I'll break at a wrong word, or so freaking stupid I don't realize I'm fragile. Cripes.

Because there's actually two versions of this Spontaneous Obsessive-Possessive Attack -- one being the classic Alpha version where the powerful/alpha character just steamrollers on over and yanks the beta/lower away, all sanity and reason apparently just gone in a sudden show of primal hair-pulling and chest-beating. Yes, that can be a make-or-break point for a story, and it does take some authorly skill to get me past a knee-jerk "hey, asshole!" reaction. (For instance, I'm a great deal more forgiving if the obsessive-possessive actions are coming from an older sibling, even though on the surface it's essentially the same behavior.)

The second version is what I guess is the modern adaptation of trying to mesh the classic sstrong/weak opposition in romance (read: romanticized) relationships, with the modern/western awareness or preference that a good relationship can be composed of equals. This isn't gender-based, though, because I've read it in gay fiction written by men for men, and lesbian fiction written by women for women, and in het fiction written by both genders, and the genders of the participants cover all possible permutations: it's when Alpha sees Beta, feels flash of protectiveness, and has to remind him/herself, consciously, that Beta is capable and able to self-defend.

Which was the point I made to CP, that somehow I find this immensely offensive, when I think of the Beta's POV even as I read through the eyes of the Alpha. How could you forget that the beta is perfectly competent? To have to consciously reassure yourself that yes, in fact, the beta can handle the situation, regardless of whether any clear danger is actually present?

When I say it's not gender-based, I mean that I've also read the same in, say, a situation where a socially skilled or powerful woman is watching her lower-class or less-social potential/actual lover hobnob. It's often expressed as a worry, and a need to intervene, but if you ask me it amounts to the same kind of thing.

Maybe I just have trouble believing in the strength of an interrelational dynamic when on some level the author seems to be determined to reinforce the imbalance. I don't know. Anyone else?

Date: 20 Sep 2008 01:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kythiaranos.livejournal.com
In either fiction or life, I think I'd find it unbelievable or annoying if one person was always the 'protector'. In a healthy relationship, people have different strengths and fears, and they take care of *each other* in proportion to their needs. I certainly feel protective of my husband, children, family members and friends. But feeling protective is not the same as interfering.

I think also it depends on relationship dynamics. I have a young friend who always treats me like I'm a little fragile or something. If it was anyone else, it would annoy the heck out of me. But from him, it's just kind of cute, because he looks all serious but doesn't actually interfere.

Date: 20 Sep 2008 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kaigou.livejournal.com
What I just realized upon reading your reply and rereading the rest is that none of us have really discussed (and I'm not sure I explicitly question in the post, or maybe overshadowed the mention with other things) is that in most RSP setups, this flare of protective/possessive behavior is not only spontaneous but often a precursor for Signs of Luuurve.

Most often as someone who normally just "would not care" about either a type of person (like when it's a powerful insert-nonhuman-type-here attracted to a Measly Human) or the Alpha is supposedly commitment-shy and scoffs at caring about others (whatevah), etc.

It's strange. It's like the dynamic is presented as, "I am immune to those messy things called relationships, I am easy-come, easy-go, oh noes, I feel suddenly protective and want to make sure s/he is never hurt and always safe, oh noes could it be luuuuurve?" There's always a thread of attraction running through there -- the usual "wow, that person is sexy and interesting and fun" but it's the protective/possessive display that acts as the lynchpin for defining the entire package as luurve.

But feeling protective is not the same as interfering.

This is true, and maybe someday I'll drag out all the texts I have that have characters feeling the flash of protective/possessive signs, and deconstruct them... just to see how authors parse that moment, whether the protector recognizes it's a sensation independent of the protectee's actual need, or, uh, what. Someday, y'know, when I don't have twenty other projects on my plate.

(Speaking of which, I really need to finish the baseboards in the dining room. Sigh. I wish the table saw were set up, this'd go so much faster...)

Date: 20 Sep 2008 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] teeheeiambad.livejournal.com
Twu Wuv.

Well, I do know this, his actions and how they made me feel secure, is why I was in the relationship with him for so long. I wasn't happy with him, but I knew, by at least those actions, he cared, or at least, at one time had. He never did that for anyone else that I ever saw. Even when mutual female friends had problems with an ex. Other guys would step up, but he ignored. Except for me. He was like that, before he ever laid a hand on me. Watching, stepping in. My friends sighed over it. He soooo Liked me! Ahhh, how romantic!! I thought so too. I didn't Like him, but his actions, they sure were attractive to me.

whois

kaigou: this is what I do, darling (Default)
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